The necessity of Rhaegar’s death.

[Alden Rothack]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

She has good reasons to lie. It would be unwise to praise Renly, an enemy of the Lannisters, when she is in Lannister territory and trying to marry Margaery to Joffrey.

shes not praising him is she, thats not a lie either since he basicly did want to be king out of ego

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Jon actually needed to be raised in a healthier family, and to have a better and more responsible father to teach him lessons, and to go to the Night's Watch and Wildlings and to awaken his warg abilities for him to be in a position to save Westeros in the future.  

Bran, Arya, Sansa and perhas also Rickon will too have their roles in the Long Winter. 

This is another reason why the rebels needed to win at the Trident, and why Ned had to live. 

[The hairy bear]

In defense of Rhaegar, it has to be remembered that he lives in a world were magic exists and prophecies are actually a thing. And it's clear that he will eventually be proven right: from a narrative point of view there's no doubt that his son with Lyanna will eventually become instrumental in "saving the world". So it was really a necessity for him to father a son with Lyanna.

That still doesn't explain why he acted without warning and then disappeared for several months, and we will certainly have to judge him harshly if he had no reasonable justification for those. But the fact that he antagonized three great noble families is not really something that matters much when the survival of a whole continent is on the other scale.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

2 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

In defense of Rhaegar, it has to be remembered that he lives in a world were magic exists and prophecies are actually a thing. And it's clear that he will eventually be proven right: from a narrative point of view there's no doubt that his son with Lyanna will eventually become instrumental in "saving the world". So it was really a necessity for him to father a son with Lyanna.

That still doesn't explain why he acted without warning and then disappeared for several months, and we will certainly have to judge him harshly if he had no reasonable justification for those. But the fact that he antagonized three great noble families is not really something that matters much when the survival of a whole continent is on the other scale.

There is definitely more to the story than meets the eye.

[Alden Rothack]

2 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

In defense of Rhaegar, it has to be remembered that he lives in a world were magic exists and prophecies are actually a thing. And it's clear that he will eventually be proven right: from a narrative point of view there's no doubt that his son with Lyanna will eventually become instrumental in "saving the world". So it was really a necessity for him to father a son with Lyanna.

That still doesn't explain why he acted without warning and then disappeared for several months, and we will certainly have to judge him harshly if he had no reasonable justification for those. But the fact that he antagonized three great noble families is not really something that matters much when the survival of a whole continent is on the other scale.

I imagine he was hiding from Aerys until he had a child with Lyanna and had convinced the three kingsguards to protect the child from everyone but him.

[frenin]

11 hours ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

From a narrative perspective I feel his death was absolutely necessary.

Everything is an absolutely necessity for a narrative perspective.

Don't really understand these types of comments.

 

 

11 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Rhaegar if he survived would have had the chance to improve n his failings.

this man actively provoked a devastating civil war before taking the throne.

Besides this is fiction, Rhaegar could have been whatever to fit the narrative. He could have become Aerys 2.0 for all we know.

 

10 hours ago, EggBlue said:

Rhaegar would have been a better king than Robert. at least as far as Long Night was concerned.

He could also drink wildfire. The sky is the limit and he is a blank slate.

 

10 hours ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

Of all the lore characters I think and hope Rhaegar needs expanded on the most

Nah, gimme Jon Arryn and Robert.

Prince emo is better underdeveloped anyway, lets his fans and or haters paint whatever they want on his character. That's the true fun.

 

10 hours ago, EggBlue said:

there were numerous ways he could go about it. the easiest way was to call her to Dragonstone as a lady to his wife. in short

Robert would not allow it. And he'd throw a fit and try and carve a hole on his chest if he finds they are having an affair.

 

 

 

[Alden Rothack]

8 minutes ago, frenin said:

Everything is an absolutely necessity for a narrative perspective.

Don't really understand these types of comments.

 

 

this man actively provoked a devastating civil war before taking the throne.

Besides this is fiction, Rhaegar could have been whatever to fit the narrative. He could have become Aerys 2.0 for all we know.

he also might not

Rhaegar believed he had to have a child with Lyanna, every other way of approaching the situation results in him, Lyanna or both dying before that happens

 

8 minutes ago, frenin said:

He could also drink wildfire. The sky is the limit and he is a blank slate.

 

Robert would not allow it. And he'd throw a fit and try and carve a hole on his chest if he finds they are having an affair.

Yeah pretty much

8 minutes ago, frenin said:

 

 

 

[frenin]

7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

In defense of Rhaegar, it has to be remembered that he lives in a world were magic exists and prophecies are actually a thing.

Aerion.

 

7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

And it's clear that he will eventually be proven right: from a narrative point of view there's no doubt that his son with Lyanna will eventually become instrumental in "saving the world". So it was really a necessity for him to father a son with Lyanna.

Well, our expectations may be subverted.

Besides, depending on how instrumental Jon is, we will have to ask ourselves if it as necessary a war to achieve him.

 

7 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

But the fact that he antagonized three great noble families is not really something that matters much when the survival of a whole continent is on the other scale.

Martin describes him as lovestruck, not as moved by prophecy.

 

40 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

he also might not

Sure but his track record is already horrible.

 

41 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Rhaegar believed he had to have a child with Lyanna, every other way of approaching the situation results in him, Lyanna or both dying before that happens

Did he believe that? 

[Alden Rothack]

5 minutes ago, frenin said:

 

Sure but his track record is already horrible.

 

Did he believe that? 

Most likely yes

 

[Angel Eyes]

8 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

In defense of Rhaegar, it has to be remembered that he lives in a world were magic exists and prophecies are actually a thing. And it's clear that he will eventually be proven right: from a narrative point of view there's no doubt that his son with Lyanna will eventually become instrumental in "saving the world". So it was really a necessity for him to father a son with Lyanna.

Unless George subverts expectations (as he's wont to do) and Jon isn't instrumental.

[Angel Eyes]

13 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I am not so sure. I mean taking a daughter of a great house, who's betrothed to a great lord, while already married to another one and thus slighting three great houses in one move and then disappearing for months when you are needed the most are such catastrophic moves that the prospect of Rhaegar being king doesn't look very good either. 

And making a tactical gaffe that gets himself killed and his army routed.

"It's over, Robert! I have the high ground!"

 

11 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

She has good reasons to lie. It would be unwise to praise Renly, an enemy of the Lannisters, when she is in Lannister territory and trying to marry Margaery to Joffrey.

And yet Renly is praised after his death for coming back one final time (the Garlan trick at Blackwater) to beat Stannis.

[The Wolves]

Rhaegar being the only one actively trying to uproot his mad King of a father already makes him a better King and ruler than 98.8 percent characters we have seen. 
 

Yes his death was necessary but he would have been a good KingIMO. The realm really suffered having the Baratheons and Lannisters in charge as we can see. 

[frenin]

7 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Rhaegar being the only one actively trying to uproot his mad King of a father already makes him a better King and ruler than 98.8 percent characters we have seen. 

Who else could have done it other than the Crown Prince? Who btw tried for about 30 minutes before deciding dooming his house was the better choice?

 

[Craving Peaches]

16 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

the only one actively trying

We don't know he was the only one.

[EggBlue]

2 hours ago, frenin said:

Robert would not allow it. And he'd throw a fit and try and carve a hole on his chest if he finds they are having an affair.

sure. but the point is if Rhaegar wanted, he could do something more discreet. like, if Lyanna was Elia's lady in waiting (which is an opportunity that Rickard would jump at), no one but the Dragonstonian would know if he started an affair with her until she gets pregnant. at which point, again, he could send her to the quiet isle for the months she was showing. literally, anything would have been a better path than what he hastily did.

8 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

In defense of Rhaegar, it has to be remembered that he lives in a world were magic exists and prophecies are actually a thing. And it's clear that he will eventually be proven right: from a narrative point of view there's no doubt that his son with Lyanna will eventually become instrumental in "saving the world". So it was really a necessity for him to father a son with Lyanna.

you're probably right. but personally, I would like it better if Rhaegar wasn't right. I mean, I still think the guy had good intentions in whatever he did as I've said in my earlier posts but I think the little we know of his characterization, he would have regretted his choices if he already hadn't when he came back for the battle of the Trident. and if in the end, he ends up on the right, his actions are kind of justified, which I don't appreciate. what Rhaegar did, throwing the realm into war, causing the end of his dynasty, betraying his wife, and leaving his wife and children in his father's mercy, was just too messed up. 

[frenin]

22 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

sure. but the point is if Rhaegar wanted, he could do something more discreet. like, if Lyanna was Elia's lady in waiting (which is an opportunity that Rickard would jump at), no one but the Dragonstonian would know if he started an affair with her until she gets pregnant. at which point, again, he could send her to the quiet isle for the months she was showing. literally, anything would have been a better path than what he hastily did.

Nothing tells that Rickard tried to get closer to the throne however and we do not know when Robert and Lyanna were marrying, the decision could have been soon out of his hands, besides the obvious fact that after Harrenhall most people suspected that Rhaegar openly fancied Lyanna, very much doubt Rickard would have allowed his daughter to be on Rhaegar's domain without any kind of supervision, let alone Robert " brooded on the insult, and his heart hardened toward the Prince of Dragonstone from that day forth" Baratheon.

[The Wolves]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

We don't know he was the only one.

With the information that we so far have and the history of the Seven Kingdoms with mad kings, I think we can safely say that he was the only one. 
 

I think Rhaegar was the only one who saw that his father was a threat to the kingdom and wanted to do what was best for the kingdom. 
 

The great lords were worried about them and theirs before worrying about the good of the kingdom as a whole. 

[The Wolves]

3 hours ago, frenin said:

Who else could have done it other than the Crown Prince? Who btw tried for about 30 minutes before deciding dooming his house was the better choice?

 

With the way those houses banded together during Robert’s Rebellion to uproot Aerys, I think they could have definitely done it without war. 
 

Also Rhaegar never tried to dethrone his father. He talked about it and probably had a plan in place like a great council but he never got the chance. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 hours ago, frenin said:

Who else could have done it other than the Crown Prince? Who btw tried for about 30 minutes before deciding dooming his house was the better choice?

 

Well IMO the powder kegs were already set up and the fuse was already attached and set up by Aerys II. All Rhaegar did was light the fuse. But given Aerys II mental state, depending on how quickly Rhaegar’s plan worked, it was going to be lit.

[Curled Finger]

Ah I love it when everyone just concludes that Rhaegar was the bad guy.   He could have been, true.  Remember Tyrion thought the Starks had a nice library?  Your know how little we know about Lyanna Stark?  How about she was smart, read, had her own interest in prophesy and approached Rhaegar herself with some information that blew his mind?  How about she told him about the Others maybe filling in some blank spaces lost to the Targaryens over the years?  Maybe running away was her idea?  Maybe they took off to study prophecy together?  Yah Yah, we won't ever know.  The point is we don't know so you can't really throw darts at Rhaegar for making this bone head decision about Lyanna without knowing the story.  There may have been an innocent reason (at first).  

And Rhaegar may have been a bonehead.  In that event, Westeros was no better or worse off with Robert.  Problem here is we don't really know anything about Rhaegar.  People's thoughts and memories aren't much to go on.  Allusions to conspiracy to overthrow his father aren't much either.  Rhaegar sounded like he may have been a good deal, but we just don't know.  All in all Robert was a bozo, but he did try to put a good man in his stead there at the end.  Too little, too late and a continent bleeds.