White Harbour’s shipping inconsistency

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

Just now, hnv said:

It's a bit hard to maintain a big city there so far from any trade route or economic basis. But should have definitely been a sturdy line of castles and holdfasts.

Well, if the North had built a city and fortress there to protect against the Ironborn, I would imagine a trade route being established for it.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 minute ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

Well, if the North had built a city and fortress there to protect against the Ironborn, I would imagine a trade route being established for it.

Though it might have to do with the fact that the Ironborn stopped being a threat and one of the Starks' priority foes thousands of years ago with the Starks having fully chased the Ironborn from the North, solidified their rule and unified the North just in time for them to focus on fending the Andals off.

[astarkchoice]

12 minutes ago, hnv said:

It's a bit hard to maintain a big city there so far from any trade route or economic basis. But should have definitely been a sturdy line of castles and holdfasts.

Dunno man trade route wise you could say possible trade route  is quite promising ! further down the coast is  the arbour, lannisport , iron isles (they DO pay the gold price  and often the  lil scamps) and seaguard ....speaking of sea guard it also seems strange this small military port isnt much bigger too given its connected to one of westeros breadbaskets and on up is  the cold hard famine prone north !!!  It would be much faster for food transportation and duck those troublesome frey toll fees !!!

[Alden Rothack]

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

Dunno man trade route wise you could say possible trade route  is quite promising ! further down the coast is  the arbour, lannisport , iron isles (they DO pay the gold price  and often the  lil scamps) and seaguard ....speaking of sea guard it also seems strange this small military port isnt much bigger too given its connected to one of westeros breadbaskets and on up is  the cold hard famine prone north !!!  It would be much faster for food transportation and duck those troublesome frey toll fees !!!

Yeah, the north should be shipping to the reach as often as shipping from

the amount of wood alone they would need would need would be worth a kings ransom

[Nathan Stark]

4 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

According to folk on the other forums its not needed as apparently the ironborn are easily removed from lands or repelled!   held territory in the north for generations at a time before but somehow  now the IB are more of a nusiance than actual killers!

Well, um, yeah? Lol. The Iron Born are raiders and sailors, not an actual land army. They only held the Riverlands because it has actual, you know, rivers. That they used to sail ships on. Otherwise, holding land without the support of their ships is pretty much impossible for the Iron Born.

[Alden Rothack]

1 minute ago, Nathan Stark said:

Well, um, yeah? Lol. The Iron Born are raiders and sailors, not an actual land army. They only held the Riverlands because it has actual, you know, rivers. That they used to sail ships on. Otherwise, holding land without the support of their ships is pretty much impossible for the Iron Born.

being worth ten greenlanders even if it were true doesn't help if your enemy has twenty times the men

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

6 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

being worth ten greenlanders even if it were true doesn't help if your enemy has twenty times the men

Which is even worse since that belief is total BS, not counting how most of their leaders are delusional and narrow-minded fools without any strategic instinct or shred of common sense.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

13 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Well, um, yeah? Lol. The Iron Born are raiders and sailors, not an actual land army. They only held the Riverlands because it has actual, you know, rivers. That they used to sail ships on. Otherwise, holding land without the support of their ships is pretty much impossible for the Iron Born.

Also unlike most Ironborn Harwyn Hoare was actually a great tactician well-versed in land warfare, thanks to his experience as a sellsword, and he also knew how to use the Riverlanders' divisions to his advantage to maintain his rule over them.

[Alden Rothack]

2 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Which is even worse since that belief is total BS, not counting how most of their leaders are delusional and narrow-minded fools without any strategic instinct or shred of common sense.

yup

honestly someone should have swatted them a long time ago

I mean the North fought the Vale over a few pirates from the Sisters but didn't do the same with the ironborn, its not like the south would have minded either

[astarkchoice]

3 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Well, um, yeah? Lol. The Iron Born are raiders and sailors, not an actual land army. They only held the Riverlands because it has actual, you know, rivers. That they used to sail ships on. Otherwise, holding land without the support of their ships is pretty much impossible for the Iron Born.

They did it in the north and reach too dude for generations.

The vikings were also raiders and sailors doesnt mean they werent also a professional standing armed force .....and no as long as they take  castles  etc they dont need ships same as any other lords etc.

[Nathan Stark]

3 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

They did it in the north and reach too dude for generations.

The vikings were also raiders and sailors doesnt mean they werent also a professional standing armed force .....and no as long as they take  castles  etc they dont need ships same as any other lords etc.

No. They held the coast of the North, because they had longships readily available to resupply their holdings. They did not hold entire kingdoms. And yes, they need longships, because they cannot hold castles if they cannot supply their men if they take castles. Sorry, but you are quite misinformed about where the strength of the Ironborn lies and how that relates to their ability to hold territory.

 

[astarkchoice]

8 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

No. They held the coast of the North, because they had longships readily available to resupply their holdings. They did not hold entire kingdoms. And yes, they need longships, because they cannot hold castles if they cannot supply their men if they take castles. Sorry, but you are quite misinformed about where the strength of the Ironborn lies and how that relates to their ability to hold territory.

 

Yes pretty much the western side , a significant  lump of the north and parts of the reach and the riverlands for sole time....which is odd as many of the same people in this thread said in other rhreads they CANT hold them at all even for.months  or years!!!!  Strange

Resupply and relief/ambush forces can be brought by sea or river yes making a navy to remove them from your lands utterly  an essential......but the idea that they cant hold a castle if needed to  without that that is daft... if cut off from the sea theyl defend a castle.as.well as dornish or stormlanders would etc

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

9 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

No. They held the coast of the North, because they had longships readily available to resupply their holdings. They did not hold entire kingdoms. And yes, they need longships, because they cannot hold castles if they cannot supply their men if they take castles. Sorry, but you are quite misinformed about where the strength of the Ironborn lies and how that relates to their ability to hold territory.

 

Rather a portion of the western coast, though of course they were doing that at a time where the Ironborn had the technological advantage of steel weapons, and when the other kingdoms weren't unified yet and far less powerful and organized. 

Of course when the North and other kingdoms became unified and grow in strength, organisation and built their own steel weapons in masse, stone castles and own fleets things went to their logical conclusion and the Ironborn holdings and the Old Way became history.