Hatching Dragons

[Alden Rothack]

Assuming they had dragon eggs could the North or the Vale hatch them as Danerys using blood rituals?

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

Assuming they had dragon eggs could the North or the Vale hatch them as Danerys using blood rituals?

Not without either a real live female dragon, or a woman with lots of dragonblood to bond with them as her meta-ovaries and a miracle event that makes her withstand the heat of fire and flame to incubate. imho.

[Alden Rothack]

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Not without either a real live female dragon, or a woman with lots of dragonblood to bond with them as her meta-ovaries and a miracle event that makes her withstand the heat of fire and flame to incubate. imho.

That would limit things

[Aebram]

Daenerys was a complete novice at magic. She had no training or experience, except for having been a witness, and perhaps an involuntary participant, in Mirri's ritual to save Drogo's life. She had no dreams, or visions, or telepathic instructions from a distant source, on how to do it. She spoke no incantations, drank no magic wine. Yet she managed to hatch three dragons at the same time, a feat which I don't think had ever been accomplished anywhere in this world.

The basic recipe seems simple: one dragon egg, one living or recently killed human. Apparently a horse can be used instead of a human; we don't know what other animals might also serve. Combine all ingredients in a pyre, bring to a blaze, and then add yourself.

Surviving a fire like that is another feat that is unparalleled in the story. Many readers have worked hard to puzzle out the underlying principles or rules of magic in this world. But what Daenerys did here seems well beyond everything else that we know about how magic works.

[Curled Finger]

Martin said Daenerys hatching the dragons was a miraculous event.  I'm going with a hard no on anyone anywhere else in universe being able to pull this one off.  

Whether this was Preston Jacobs crazy genetics idea or stars aligning or perfect blood magic or Dany keeping the eggs on braziers I don't know.  Just seemed that a person with dragon blood had to perform this ritual involving blood sacrifice, possibly several, and um, conditioned dragon eggs.  Ululating Godswife seemed to help.  Who knows?  Maybe Dany's willingness to walk into the fire itself was part of it?  

[sweetsunray]

5 hours ago, Aebram said:

She had no dreams, or visions, or telepathic instructions from a distant source, on how to do it.

She has 3 dreams.

[sweetsunray]

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Maybe Dany's willingness to walk into the fire itself was part of it?  

I think that was the crucial part.

Notice that one of the few who survived Aegon V's attempt was Rhaegar's mother. She never got to step in the fire, but was carried to safety, and instead of dragons, there was Rhaegar.

[Aebram]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

She has 3 dreams.

I meant that she had no dreams or visions that gave her instructions on how to hatch dragons ... Actually, that's what I wrote. But it was one of those sentences where the omission of a comma (the third one in this case) changes the meaning. Maybe it was hard to see on your screen?

[sweetsunray]

56 minutes ago, Aebram said:

I meant that she had no dreams or visions that gave her instructions on how to hatch dragons ... Actually, that's what I wrote. But it was one of those sentences where the omission of a comma (the third one in this case) changes the meaning. Maybe it was hard to see on your screen?

Those dreams are faustian instructions imo.

• First one: she births a dragon and it's offered as a relief from her abusive brother. A Faustian deal. How about it? She dreamed it shortly befoer her wedding, and that wedding is actually a hatching of Dany herself as dragon: silver is her wings, leaping across fire, getting dragonbone firepower with the bow, teeth/claw with the arakh and a leather whipping tail, and she receives 3 dragon eggs ... (females are born with all their eggs in their ovaries.)
• Second one: she makes eye contact with the dragon, and he douses her in dragonfire, which cleanses her. This dream is part of the chapter where she stands up against her brother and while hot and bothered sees red light sparkles going to the egss. The intuitive lesson: step into fire to incubate the eggs. Later on she tries to warm the eggs on a brazier but discovers that's not it.
• Third one: while delivering Rhaego, experiencing him being taken as a price, combined with a dragon burning Drogo, etc She runs a fever and discovers the eggs are hot to her senses, but they are not to Jorah.

She pieces it all together, and decides to step into the pyre herself. The eggs crack and hatch the moment she does.

So, even though my answer was short "she had 3 dreams", I did mean "3 instruction dreams" and was not ignoring your claim that she didn't have any instructions. She did. Just not ikea ones. It was intuitive. But certainly the second one instructs her to step into fire herself.

ETA: full analysis on Saint George's true dragon, her dragon dreams, etc

https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2020/12/16/dany-ii-saint-georges-true-dragon/

[Evolett]

50 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

So, even though my answer was short "she had 3 dreams", I did mean "3 instruction dreams" and was not ignoring your claim that she didn't have any instructions. She did. Just not ikea ones. It was intuitive. But certainly the second one instructs her to step into fire herself.

Fully agree. I wonder whether those dreams came from Quaithe, though they had not met at the time. The stars that feature in those dreams remind me of Dany seeing Quaithe with her mask made of starlight and hearing Quaithe's "whispering of the stars."

To answer the OP's question, no, I can't see anyone repeating this event with stone dragon eggs, nor what the point would be storywise. Considering dragons need time to grow and develop, it seems a bit late in the day to hatch another. But George has planted a few "missing" dragons so who knows, perhaps one of these will materialize to be claimed by a key player in the game. 

[Shi Qiang]

16 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Assuming they had dragon eggs could the North or the Vale hatch them as Danerys using blood rituals?

Dragon eggs naturally hatch on their own.  However, the species died out.  Eggs must be kept hot at all times.  Otherwise they will turn to stone.  The Targaryens have waited many generations for the Prince That Was Promised to resurrect the dragons.  This special Targaryen must come from the union of two Targaryens.  The answer to your question is "No."  The north cannot hatch dragon eggs.  Only the Mother of Dragons has that magic power. 

[Alden Rothack]

12 minutes ago, Shi Qiang said:

Dragon eggs naturally hatch on their own.  However, the species died out.  Eggs must be kept hot at all times.  Otherwise they will turn to stone.  The Targaryens have waited many generations for the Prince That Was Promised to resurrect the dragons.  This special Targaryen must come from the union of two Targaryens.  The answer to your question is "No."  The north cannot hatch dragon eggs.  Only the Mother of Dragons has that magic power. 

Thats unfortunate

[sweetsunray]

1 hour ago, Evolett said:

Fully agree. I wonder whether those dreams came from Quaithe, though they had not met at the time. The stars that feature in those dreams remind me of Dany seeing Quaithe with her mask made of starlight and hearing Quaithe's "whispering of the stars."

I think Dany partially answers this herself at some point: it's "her blood" singing the right song to her, in dreams, in magical hallucinatory experiences. I do think though that there is something the equivalent of a darklyn plain, where a certain god/demon was waiting for an opportunity to be reborn into the black-red scaled flesh and stretch his bat wings and raise some hell - Saagael

[Buried Treasure]

8 hours ago, Shi Qiang said:

Dragon eggs naturally hatch on their own.  However, the species died out.  Eggs must be kept hot at all times.  Otherwise they will turn to stone. 

Agree about fresh dragons eggs hatching on their own. For wild dragons the heat will have to come from volcanic activity, limiting their natural range to places like Valryria and Dragonstone.

When fresh clutches were claimed by humans they could extend the range of dragons by providing human body heat and human-built fires. I know the cramped size of the Dragonpit and the maester's poisons are blamed for small size and failed hatchings of the last dragons, but I think the lack of the special magic of the volcanic heat must have also been part of the decline.

 

Quote

The Targaryens have waited many generations for the Prince That Was Promised to resurrect the dragons.  This special Targaryen must come from the union of two Targaryens.  The answer to your question is "No."  The north cannot hatch dragon eggs.  Only the Mother of Dragons has that magic power. 

Here I disagree. Many Targaryens and high-bred Valyrians before them were the product of incest - that isn't what made Dany special.

 

What set Dany apart from all the other madmen, dreamers and sorcerers that tried to hatch fossilised eggs before her is that she is only woman we know to have attempted a hatching. I think that's the key - the women's magic of bringing life into the world.

 

I see her being a Targaryen as significant in that it was mostly Targs that had the insanity / hubris / prophetic belief to attempt dragon- hatching. It wasn't going to be a northern woman or a Dornish woman or an Iron-born that would create the miracle because even had they possessed dragon eggs (unlikely) they wouldn't have attempted the sacrifice.

 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

That's a weird chapter where she hatches those eggs. Despite the fact that it's a Dany POV we're kind of kept away from her - she seems confident that what she is going to do will work, but she never thinks about it. She tells Jorah she's not going to die but as I recall there's little self doubt or niggling fears. My tinfoil hat and I can't help but wonder if she's not alone in there and either BR or Quaithe or someone who knows a little something about the ritual (MMD herself?) that she performs is the Bran to her Hodor while she performs it.

If that's the case then I would say yes, it probably could be duplicated as long as the necessary ingredients were present. If a targ woman was a necessary ingredient then a different one than Dany would probably suffice. 

 

[U. B. Cool]

George R. R. Martin has said more than a few times.  Dany is very special.  She is the only one who could hatch petrified dragon eggs and bring the species back to life.  One of the prophecies from the east also say the same thing, Azor Ahai will bring the dragons back and she did. 

Fresh eggs are a different story.  They just hatch like other eggs.  And if truth be told would do so without human interference. 

[Steve Moss II]

I know there is a theory that Silverwing left eggs at Winterfell.  If so, perhaps the hot springs kept them warm and incubated?

[Shi Qiang]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:27 PM, Buried Treasure said:

Here I disagree. Many Targaryens and high-bred Valyrians before them were the product of incest - that isn't what made Dany special.

 

What set Dany apart from all the other madmen, dreamers and sorcerers that tried to hatch fossilised eggs before her is that she is only woman we know to have attempted a hatching. I think that's the key - the women's magic of bringing life into the world.

 

I see her being a Targaryen as significant in that it was mostly Targs that had the insanity / hubris / prophetic belief to attempt dragon- hatching. It wasn't going to be a northern woman or a Dornish woman or an Iron-born that would create the miracle because even had they possessed dragon eggs (unlikely) they wouldn't have attempted the sacrifice.

Sure, I would love to see Jon Snow attempt to hatch a dragon egg and burn himself down to ashes.  He's supposed to be one of the fake dragons in the prophecy who will be punished.  I see Daenerys and the Targaryens as god like heroes who were the first race.  The return of the dragons and her symbolic birth as Azor Ahai signals the return of old ancient powers.  Winter is the equivalent of a civilization reboot.  The deathly cold will destroy most of life.  A dawn empire will rise as soon as the ice recedes again.  Daenerys was able to bring the dragons back from death because she is special.  Any other woman or man attempting to manually hatch eggs will fail and get themselves killed. 

[Craving Peaches]

26 minutes ago, Shi Qiang said:

I see Daenerys and the Targaryens as god like heroes who were the first race.

Yeah, Aerys, Aerion and Maegor certainly qualify as a 'god-like hero'.

[kissdbyfire]

43 minutes ago, Shi Qiang said:

Sure, I would love to see Jon Snow attempt to hatch a dragon egg and burn himself down to ashes.  He's supposed to be one of the fake dragons in the prophecy who will be punished. 
 

Which prophecy talks about fake dragons? Care to provide a quote? Or are you referring to the prophecy that talks about a “mummer’s dragon” among other things? Because if that’s what you’re talking about, it’s one mummer’s dragon, not several. So, are you saying Jon is the mummer’s dragon? I wouldn’t be surprised by this interpretation, since you seem to struggle enormously with understanding the text.

43 minutes ago, Shi Qiang said:

I see Daenerys and the Targaryens as god like heroes who were the first race. 
 

The first race? How? 

43 minutes ago, Shi Qiang said:

The return of the dragons and her symbolic birth as Azor Ahai signals the return of old ancient powers.  Winter is the equivalent of a civilization reboot.  The deathly cold will destroy most of life.  A dawn empire will rise as soon as the ice recedes again.  Daenerys was able to bring the dragons back from death because she is special.  Any other woman or man attempting to manually hatch eggs will fail and get themselves killed. 

But I thought you liked Dany? Azor Ahai is a villain, not a hero. Careful what you wish for.