Tommen's Kittens - Symbolism?

[Mourning Star]

38 minutes ago, Evolett said:

Thanks for this comprehensive collection of quotes. Lovely

Thank you! But just to be clear, this is absolutely not a comprehensive list. It turns out there are a lot of cat quotes in ASoIaF!

I tried to pick out some relevant and interesting ones, ignoring the name “Cat” and descriptions of “cat like” or “like a cat”.

53 minutes ago, Evolett said:

I'm betting the cat of a different coat will gain the upper hand next time round.

It’s certainly seemed a logical connection, lions are cats after all, and a “different coat” could be equated to skinchanging. Not sure I’m sold though.

One of those quotes I didn’t include…

"And now my oaf son is doing the same, only he's riding a lion instead of a palfrey. It is easy to mount a lion and not so easy to get off, I warned him, but he only chuckles. Should you ever have a son, Sansa, beat him frequently so he learns to mind you. I only had the one boy and I hardly beat him at all, so now he pays more heed to Butterbumps than he does to me. A lion is not a lap cat, I told him, and he gives me a 'tut-tut-Mother.' There is entirely too much tut-tutting in this realm, if you ask me. All these kings would do a deal better if they would put down their swords and listen to their mothers."

Now I’m a Queen of Thorns fan, but the war of five kings was started as much by Cat, Cersei, and Lysa as anyone else, given the abduction of Tyrion and murders of Robert and Jon Arryn (their husbands). One could even make the case that it was Cat’s faith in Littlefinger that gets Ned killed, but she’s not his mom. I point out the mariticide connection mostly because the Queen of Thorns reference to her dead husband is perhaps suspicious, but I digress and that’s a topic for a different thread.

Back to Cat, and her children being referred to in the metaphor of the Red Keep cats, I find it interesting that Tommen goes “fishing for cats” since the fish is the Tully symbol.

I haven’t come to any coherent conclusion yet, but while making the posts here I’ve been toying with the idea that Tommen’s black cats might represent some of Jon’s (who was represented by the black cat Belarion) brothers of the Nights Watch.

The only black about him was his boots. Cat had heard him tell Lanna that he'd thrown all the rest in a canal. "I am done with darkness," he had announced.

He is a man of the Night's Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince. And the singer should be on the Wall.

[Castellan]

The female lady stealing from the male knight just reminded me of Cersei manipulating Jaime all his life, especially given that its Cersei preaching self-interest here. She got Jaime to give up his title because she needed him for security. Yet Ser Pounce had saved the kittens from the black cat, which by its dragon name is associated with the Targs.

Reading this OP, the most obvious mouse in the series is Ser Shadrich, who is pursuing Sansa. Possibly Lady Whiskers is Lysa - Sansa was already at the Vale while Shadrich looked for him, or Catelyn, who may manage to find her. Hmmm or even Brienne, who is looking for her, and is a mannish lady knight. Sansa is a prize mouse with a few parties fighting for possession.

[oldbus]

I've always thought one of the key points of the cats was to link Tommen with Rhaenys.  Balerion was her cat, and these cats are probably the children of Balerion.  Tommen is playing with them just as Rhaenys played with Balerion, and unfortunately I think his future will be just as tragic.

[Evolett]

21 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

It’s certainly seemed a logical connection, lions are cats after all, and a “different coat” could be equated to skinchanging. Not sure I’m sold though.

It was a  spontaneous association after reading through the collection, though I wasn't thinking of skinchanging. I just noticed this might support the idea:

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The biggest toms would seldom win, she noticed; oft as not, the prize went to some smaller, quicker animal, thin and mean and hungry. Like me, she told herself. 

The smaller cats winning over the biggest toms. 

Fascinating. So many different possible interpretations for the cats and kittens.

Here's one more, linking kittens to dragons:

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“You did this?” Dany asked queasily. “None other.” If her dragons discomfited Daario Naharis, he hid it well. For all the mind he paid them, they might have been three kittens playing with a mouse. 

 

And this is Sam who had a passion for kittens:

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His passions were books and kittens and dancing, clumsy as he was.

 

 

[three-eyed monkey]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:18 PM, Nathan Stark said:

To me, Tomme's three kittens stand in as a microcosm for Westerosi feudal society as a whole. You have Lady Whiskers, the noble, stealing a mouse from Ser Pounce, the knight who did the actual work of catching the mouse but is unable or even unwilling to steal it back. Boots is apparently nowhere to be seen in this exchange, but I'd argue he is a standin for the smallfolk, who are always overlooked by the nobility and don't recieve much from them even in peacetime. And of course, the mouse is Westeros itself, seen as a tasty prize to be fought over between the nobility. 

Lady Whiskers and Ser Pounce's names pretty clearly give the game away, but Boots is not as obvious. But, like Arya "Underfoot" spends the most time seeing the war from the smallfolk's perspective, Boots name signals that he is the "underfoot" character. 

I agree with this interpretation, except I think the mouse represents the smallfolk. Boots isn't part of this story but he does make three when it comes to Tommen's kittens, which are symbolic, but I'll get back to that.

The tale of the mouse, Ser Pounce, and Lady Whiskers is an allegory for the feudal society in the Seven Kingdoms; smallfolk, knights and nobles. The booty flows upward. Cersei tells Tommen that Ser Pounce must learn to defend his rights. Basically, he must learn to play the game of thrones. But when the high lords play the game of thrones, fighting over what they believe is their right, it's usually the smallfolk who do most of the dying, which brings us back to the mouse. Of course lions don't concern themselves with the squeaks of mice. From Cersei's point of view, it's good to be top of the food chain.

If we go a little deeper we see that this ties into the broader theme about rights versus duty, but I don't want to stray too far from the cats.

On 2/15/2023 at 5:22 PM, Mourning Star said:

The Red Keep was full of cats: lazy old cats dozing in the sun, cold-eyed mousers twitching their tails, quick little kittens with claws like needles, ladies' cats all combed and trusting, ragged shadows prowling the midden heaps. One by one Arya had chased them down and snatched them up and brought them proudly to Syrio Forel … all but this one, this one-eared black devil of a tomcat. "That's the real king of this castle right there," one of the gold cloaks had told her. "Older than sin and twice as mean. One time, the king was feasting the queen's father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin's fingers. Robert laughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child."

I think the story of the one-eared tomcat makes a related but different point to the tale of the mouse, Ser Pounce and Lady Whiskers.

That's the real king of the castle right there, we're told. The tomcat is Rhaenys' kitten Balerion. Ser Pounce scaring him off is just the old trope of knights and dragons, used to affirm that the tomcat is indeed Balerion. The point here is that dragons are the real kings of the castle. You may control it to a degree, even a high degree, but best not forget who the real boss is. A dragon is not a slave and will dine from the kings table and take from the lords if it pleases. The kings and lords should beware that the law of the jungle becomes a different prospect when you're no longer top of the food chain.

So while they are cute when they are kittens, they can grow to be dreaded, like Balerion the cat and the dragon. This is a clear parallel to Dany, whose dragons were once the size of cats, that is until they spread their wings. The symbolism is further developed later when Tommen gets his three kittens, which are all black like the kitten Rhaenys liked to pretend was a dragon, because they represent the three dragons.

[Seams]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:22 PM, Mourning Star said:

The cats of the red keep seem to parallel the Stark children and their direwolves.

This feels right to me - although there are more layers to the cat symbolism, including the important Rhaenys / Balerion association with the old tom cat - and would explain some other details in the wordplay and symbolism.

Robb is acclaimed as the King In The North - KITN. 

Joffrey kills a pregnant mother cat, exposing her kittens in utero. He thinks this will impress Robert, but Robert is disgusted by it. Cersei makes excuses for Joffrey's behavior. I think the symbolism is about the death of Catelyn but the larger point is to look at a cycle of killing which may represent a cycle of seasons:

Ned killed Lady, who was Sansa's pet. Sandor says the Starks use direwolves for wetnurses. The killing was desired by Cersei and ordered by Robert. 

Joffrey will eventually kill Ned using as executioner the King's Justice who said Tywin was the "real" king. 

A Gold Cloak told Arya that the black tom cat, thought to be Rhaenys' kitten, Balerion, was the "real" king. That cat stole a hot pigeon (roast quail) out of Tywin's fingers. 

Robert "bursts" (from laughter) when the cat takes the quail. This foreshadows Robert's death, when his entrails will burst from his belly.

When Sansa imagines marrying the Tyrell heir, Willas, she imagines sitting with him in a garden, with puppies in their laps. Of course, Willa is the name of the Dayne wetnurse who (readers believe) kept Jon Snow fed after the death of Lyanna. Robert believes she was the mother of Jon Snow. Killing a Stark wetnurse brings us back to Sansa's wolf, Lady. 

Joffrey, who I think of as Jaime's mini-me, will die after eating Tyrion's hot pigeon pie. 

Tyrion's squire, Pod, was nearly killed by Tywin for eating stolen food. He is spared and assigned to serve Tyrion, including bringing food to him and, eventually, Tyrion's wife Sansa. He is a Payne, like the King's Justice, which makes him part of the Reyne / Payne / Dayne and possibly Jeyne symbolic group. (Is Princess Rhaenys also part of that group?)

When Roose Bolton kills Robb Stark, he says, "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." Symbolically, Roose is acting as Jaime's disembodied kingslayer hand. The signal for this regicide is the Reyne song about the cat with long claws. 

Jon Snow is given a sword called Long Claw. 

Aside from the cycle of killing kings, what other symbols are cat-related?

The black tom cat (Balerion) at the Red Keep seems to like Sansa - he rubs up against her legs - and he is finally caught and kissed between the eyes by Arya. Compare that to this moment:

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The kittens loved to chase it, and the boy liked nothing better than jerking it about the floor as they pounced after it. He seemed surprised when Cersei gathered him up in her arms and kissed him on his brow.

AFfC, Cersei X

Are we supposed to compare the tom cat and Tommen? One may be Rhaenys / Balerion, passing the baton to Sansa and Arya as the next generation of princesses. The other may represent the dead Joffrey, surprised when Cersei kisses him instead of his wife, Margaery, having that intimate contact with him. 

(Note: there's something going on here with jerking and the garment called a jerkin - Arya notes that the old tom cat's claws rake her leather jerkin and that she has to jerk her head back to keep her face clear of his claws. Tommen is jerking the mouse toy for the kittens. However, Tommen had a pet fawn before he had the kittens. Joffrey had it killed and skinned to make himself a jerkin. The fawn jerkin seems symbolic of Joffrey's false Baratheon identity - like a skinchanger inhabiting the deer sigil. But it is significant that the fawn - and therefore the jerkin? - belonged to Tommen.)

Here are some of the wordplay hints and literary analysis that may help to explain the cat symbolism:

Ser Pounce - serpents. This is such a brilliant name for this kitten because it sounds like a knight but, at the same time, it represents dragons, which means a symbolic Targaryen. Sansa encounters the old black cat at the top of the serpentine steps, which is an important symbolic location in the Red Keep. 

Lady Whiskers - The last time we discussed Tommen's kittens, I was pretty sure that this referred to Queen Selyse Florent, who is usually described as having facial hair. I still think this is true, but I have come to understand that the Florents and Tyrells are competing to be the successors to House Gardner and thus the rulers of High Garden where green and peaches and summer reside. The whiskers are part of the shaggy / sharp paired opposites that GRRM uses throughout the novels - Selyse is a shaggy queen and Olenna is a sharp queen (Queen of Thorns) - Florent vs. Tyrell. Stannis vs. Renly / Joffrey / Tommen.

Boots - I think the earlier comments are correct that we associate Bran with boots because he mentions that skinchanging Hodor is like wearing old boots. We also associate boots with Arya, who takes boots from the singer Dareon (who comes from the Reach, like the Florents and Tyrells) but the boots do not fit her. Actually, checking the boot references in her POVs, she comes across a lot of boots that don't fit her. She wears some of them and finds coins in the toes of others. The boot motif could link to the jerkin symbolism since both are made of leather and are part of the skinchanging symbolism. (As an anagram, boot is probably also related to the Tobho Mott symbolism which ties into smiths, Flea Bottom, Hot Tomb, Gendry, the melting of Ice, etc. Boot Thom? That makes sense with a tom cat named Boots.)

Mice - ice. I know, I know, I see ice everywhere. (When I wrote the word "regicide" a few paragraphs ago, I even wondered whether GRRM was playing around with "grey ice die" by having Roose Bolton, whose eyes are like grey ice, kill the king.) But linking mice to ice would also support the several comments on this thread that assert that mice are spies. This is because of the ice / eyes wordplay. It would also support this "sword that slays the season" symbolism I see in the cycle of the winter king killing the summer king and then summer killing winter in an endless cycle - the cat (Long Claw) kills the mouse and then the sword (Ice / mice) kills the cat. Ser Pounce catches the mouse and then Lady Whiskers takes it from him. Cersei says that Ser Pounce must learn to defend himself - perhaps he will be able to take the next mouse away from Lady Whiskers. 

Mouser - Summer. I think this is a really important potential insight into the meaning of Tommen's kittens. They are mousers; they kill mice. If the kitten named Boots represents Bran, I wonder whether it will be a mouser? Because Bran loves his direwolf and it is named Summer. If the cats of the Red Keep represent past and present kings and members of the court, a future king would probably have a cat or kitten waiting in the wings. (Recall Robb as KITN.) 

Another source of information about Bran's relationship to Tommen's pets is that Bran and Tommen engaged in practice combat at Winterfell and that Bran knocked Tommen down half a hundred times. That wasn't jousting, though, which is the most important combat game for literary analysis purposes when determining the succession for the throne. We later see Tommen at Joffrey's name day tourney, riding his pet pony and jousting with a dummy made of straw. In other words, a bale. This takes us into the Bael / Baelor / Baelish / Balerion / Able name group but also allows us to recall two guards assigned to Bran at Winterfell: Alebelly (Bael is hidden in his name) and Hayhead. The quintain with the straw foe ("Tommen's opponent was a child-sized leather warrior") spins around and knocks Tommen off his pony. Symbolically, Bran's champions - a bale of straw and a hayhead - defeat Tommen in jousting. Sometimes the winner takes the loser's mount so there is yet another pet that Tommen would forfeit.

tl;dr: Tommen's kittens represent the cycle of summer and winter kings who take turns ruling the land by killing each other in an endless cycle. The cats kill mice but mice are part of team Ice (because they rhyme) and cats can be killed by swords such as Ice. (Rats may be part of team Stark, if my "almost anagram" theory is correct.)

Jaime pushed Bran off of a tower; Nymeria bit Joffrey; Cersei had Lady killed; Joffrey may have sent the catspaw to kill Bran but the catspaw cut Catelyn's hand instead. Catelyn took Tyrion prisoner. Tyrion's champion, Bronn (who is described as cat-like) defeated Lysa's champion who she described as he husband's right hand. Bloody Mummers (rhymes with Summer) maimed Jaime; Joffrey killed Ned; Joffrey was replaced by his look-alike brother, Tommen; Bran may "kill" Tommen. 

[Sandy Clegg]

Just to be annoyingly thorough, I'll add here that kittens (or kits) can also refer to the young of rats and rabbits, as well as badgers, foxes and weasels.

[Evolett]

15 hours ago, Seams said:

Ser Pounce - serpents. This is such a brilliant name for this kitten because it sounds like a knight but, at the same time, it represents dragons, which means a symbolic Targaryen. Sansa encounters the old black cat at the top of the serpentine steps, which is an important symbolic location in the Red Keep. 

Looks like we're supposed to link cats, serpents and dragons. Sansa and the black cat at the top of the serpentine steps is like Cat at the head of the serpent that is the Northern army as it crosses the Twins:

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The double column wound its way through the gate of the eastern twin like a great steel snake, slithering across the courtyard, into the keep and over the bridge, to issue forth once more from the second castle on the west bank. Catelyn rode at the head of the serpent, with her son and her uncle Ser Brynden and Ser Stevron Frey. 

Similar to this is also the GoHH's dream in which she sees Sansa as a maid with "purple serpents" in her hair (again here focus is the top, the head region). 

These "purple serpents" eventually kill Joffery and perhaps this is where the jerkin crafted from Tommen's fawn comes in.  

15 hours ago, Seams said:

However, Tommen had a pet fawn before he had the kittens. Joffrey had it killed and skinned to make himself a jerkin. The fawn jerkin seems symbolic of Joffrey's false Baratheon identity - like a skinchanger inhabiting the deer sigil. But it is significant that the fawn - and therefore the jerkin? - belonged to Tommen.)

I'm reminded of Haggon's lectures on the animals skinchangers take as their familiars. Deer are prey. And more so a young fawn which is practically defenceless. A jerkin is a sleeveless garment. It has no arms. By taking away Tommen's fawn and turning it into a jerkin for himself, Joff symbolically condems himself. He's unable to defend himself, becoming the serpent's prey.

Perhaps  the same symbolism applied to Arya. During her lessons with Syrio, she's still a defenceless young "fawn" wearing a jerkin (related = I recall fArya/Jeyne wearing doe slippers on her wedding day). She owns Needle but does not know how to use it. Her lessons and interaction with cats with claws like needles help her to hone her instincts and learn the art of defending herself. 

On a side note - the German translation for fawn is "kitz," which is interesting. Ironically, through Joff's cruelty, Tommen progresses from owning a helpless "kitz" to possessing three kittens with claws that also symbolize dragons. After receiving the kittens and under Loras's tutelage he will later "win" against a sandbag opponent, breaking the dummy's lance as well. Unfortunately, Cersei puts an end to his lessons with Loras. 

 

16 hours ago, Seams said:

Boots - I think the earlier comments are correct that we associate Bran with boots because he mentions that skinchanging Hodor is like wearing old boots. We also associate boots with Arya, who takes boots from the singer Dareon (who comes from the Reach, like the Florents and Tyrells) but the boots do not fit her. Actually, checking the boot references in her POVs, she comes across a lot of boots that don't fit her.

Regarding the boot symbolism, I think boots represent the skinchanged victim rather than the skinchanger. Hodor is like an old boot. Arya not finding boots that fit then means she hasn't yet found the right or "fitting" familiar to skinchange, one that will suit her. Bran has several fitting "old boots" but Arya does not. So as far as the symbolism in respect of magic goes, the kitten named Boots may represent a dragon that can indeed be skinchanged, whears the others cannot be.