Gilbert Green Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: You break my heart, Gilbert... And this leads to a paradox. You support my opposition to the idea that any one person is responsible for everything. But you don't support opposition to the idea that Renly was responsible for everything. Which means you support the idea that Renly is responsible for everything. But you oppose the idea that any one person is responsible for everything. Well, everyone except Renly of course. He probably hired the catspaw too. Craving Peaches, Northern Sword and Admirable Privy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Gilbert Green said: Well, everyone except Renly of course. He probably hired the catspaw too. I will go one further. Renly has had skinchanging powers the whole time and has been manipulating everything from the moment he was conceived. He killed his parents onboard that ship. He made Aerys go insane. He made Jaime push Bran from the tower and Joffrey kill Ned. He made Stannis kill him too, so he could get a better host body. Renly is evil incarnate. Spoiler By the way, I gave myself a headache with that paradox comment Lord of Raventree Hall and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Honestly, there is any number of nonsensical theories, or wishful thinking masquerading as theories, or extreme reaches to try fitting headcanon; but I think the worst theories are those insidiously accepted as canon by a large portion of readers, despite the text not actually supporting them meaningfully or even contradicting them. I won't name the offenders in my eyes so as not to derail the topic, but I can't help but be reminded of similar popular theories that were thoroughly dismantled when the next book was published, back when new books were actually released. kissdbyfire and sweetsunray 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 58 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: Honestly, there is any number of nonsensical theories, or wishful thinking masquerading as theories, or extreme reaches to try fitting headcanon; but I think the worst theories are those insidiously accepted as canon by a large portion of readers, despite the text not actually supporting them meaningfully or even contradicting them. I won't name the offenders in my eyes so as not to derail the topic, but I can't help but be reminded of similar popular theories that were thoroughly dismantled when the next book was published, back when new books were actually released. cool! ... what theories?!* *some of us have never experienced a new book release. so please do elaborate! Gilbert Green, Many-Faced Votary and Ser Arthurs Dawn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, EggBlue said: cool! ... what theories?!* *some of us have never experienced a new book release. so please do elaborate! Noting that these are the ones that were relatively popular and my memory isn't the best, here are a few just off the top of my head: Sansa would be killed in captivity in King's Landing. (Lady's death was to have foreshadowed this.) Barristan was totally in on R+L=J, so he would travel north to try putting Jon on the Iron Throne. Robb would sign a treaty with Tywin and/or Tywin would trade Joffrey for Jaime. Related to the above: The Starks would win the War of Five Kings quickly. Robb and Dany would marry. Super-common theory after AGoT, still fairly popular after a ACoK (despite the Red Wedding foreshadowing and buildup throughout that book), and then... yeah. Jon and Cat would have a child together. This one was thankfully not that popular, but still big to a worrying extent. Dany would burninate the Water Gardens for reasons, apparently set up by another Daenerys being responsible for their creation. One of the very few fan theories Mr. Martin directly addressed and staunchly rejected -- these people largely jumped ship to King's Landing. Raven Princling, Lord of Raventree Hall, Gilbert Green and 4 others 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: Jon and Cat would have a child together. Aejohn the Conqueroo, EggBlue, Many-Faced Votary and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: The exponentially greater prevalence of the Internet just made things more prolific, but the insanity was always there! Craving Peaches, Raven Princling and EggBlue 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: The exponentially greater prevalence of the Internet just made things more prolific, but the insanity was always there! Maybe I will consider this 'theory' in my eventual 'Psychoanalysis of Jon Snow' thread. EggBlue, Many-Faced Votary, Raven Princling and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 anyone else really dislike it when someone uses the phrase 'the worst takes', or 'your take' etc. The use of the word take in this context... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 When I was a mere noob here, low these many years ago, I heard the cautionary tale of the Corn Code. Apparently, the Corn Code was an elaborate theory on how GRRM used words to foreshadow what was to come. It was based on Mormont's Raven saying 'Corn, Corn, Corn' and other words in threes, and expanded outward to other parts of the series that had repetitive words. The theory was popular and garnered interest and lots of discussion. However, as I remember the story, it at a Comic Con that someone, perhaps the creator of the threads, asked GRRM to comment on the corn code, and he got a good laugh out of it and told the fan there was no corn code, and no code to be found among the repetitive words. I heard of this in a thread about silly theories, and the fan who created the corn code commented and the poor guy as still very embarrassed about it. I occasionally read a theory or two and keep the corn code in mind. Theories can fun, silly, really interesting or complete nonsense. But as mentioned above, even so, might still have an interesting insight or two. Here's a link to one of the threads I found: Corn Code revision 8 Many-Faced Votary, Raven Princling, EggBlue and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 6 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said: ... I think the worst theories are those insidiously accepted as canon by a large portion of readers, despite the text not actually supporting them meaningfully or even contradicting them. I won't name the offenders in my eyes so as not to derail the topic ... I'll name one. Euron is going to attack Oldtown, and/or meet the Redwyne Fleet in battle. He isn't. Still, it would not be a terrible theory, if it were only presented a theory. And I certainly get a kick out of the idea that Euron will use blood magic to summon krakens and sink the Redwyne Fleet. Many-Faced Votary and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: anyone else really dislike it when someone uses the phrase 'the worst takes', or 'your take' etc. The use of the word take in this context... Not as bad as people saying 'could care less' when they mean couldn't care less'. Ser Arthurs Dawn and kissdbyfire 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Theories:- Sansa is the daughter of LF and Cat. Jon is the son of either Brandon Stark and Lyanna or Ned and Lyanna. Dany is the daughter of Rhaegar and Rhaella. Tyrion and Penny will have dwarf children, together, resulting in a new race of dwarves in Essos. Takes:- The Ghiscari slavers are in the right, and the Sons of the Harpy are freedom fighters. Robb ought to have proved he was impartial by executing his mother for freeing Jaime. Tywin’s massacres were simply realpolitik. Raven Princling, kissdbyfire, Many-Faced Votary and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, SeanF said: Tywin’s massacres were simply realpolitik. That’s certainly arguable; realpolitik covers a lot of ground, ie calling it that, even accurately, isn’t necessarily a defence. There’s a reason great men are rarely good men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, SeanF said: Tywin’s massacres were simply realpolitik. If they were 'realpolitik', they weren't good realpolitik, because they backfired. EggBlue, Raven Princling, sweetsunray and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, SeanF said: Tyrion and Penny will have dwarf children, together, resulting in a new race of dwarves in Essos. This is the first I'm seeing of this. Good Lord. Unfortunately, I have seen everything else you have mentioned numerous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: If they were 'realpolitik', they weren't good realpolitik, because they backfired. There was a big element of spite, and overkill. Tywin’s actions worked in the short term. But in the longer term, he sowed the wind and his family will reap the whirlwind. Craving Peaches, EggBlue, Admirable Privy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, LongRider said: I heard of this in a thread about silly theories, and the fan who created the corn code commented and the poor guy as still very embarrassed about it. I occasionally read a theory or two and keep the corn code in mind. Theories can fun, silly, really interesting or complete nonsense. But as mentioned above, even so, might still have an interesting insight or two. Here's a link to one of the threads I found: Corn Code revision 8 Yeah I remember reading the corn code and scratching my head over the logical jumps, yet still admired the work that went into it. George freely admits to planting clues in the books, but it seems that no coherent theory has emerged yet. Still, it’s an enticing prospect. There are many ways of reading the books that give people pleasure, and the code hunting method is definitely one of them. It’s very possible that George might simply be smarter and more subtle than the entire readership. Which makes the hunt all the more worthwhile Edited February 17, 2023 by Sandy Clegg LongRider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 This has to be the single worst and most easily falsifiable theory anyone has ever come up with. Lord of Raventree Hall, EggBlue, Nathan Stark and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 As others have said already, there are far too many ideas out there that are... well... insane, to put it nicely. And I say 'ideas' b/c many can't be called theories since they lack everything a theory needs to be called that. There are plenty of proper theories that are outright wrong or, in other cases, just theories that are wrong in my opinion and I acknowledge I may the wrong and not said theories. So, the inane 'ideas' that are not worth being called theories are just good material to excercise one's sarcasm muscles. On the other hand, the theories that I disagree with but are intellectually honest are worth engaging with because the exchange is often interesting. I also think there's no reason to mock or shoot down [real] theories just because one doesn't agree with them. The third category is that of theories that are sort of grounded n the text but not really. Like, they use the author's understanding of the text but in such bizarre ways that it becomes almost impossible to engage. I remember a few years back somone had a totally convoluted idea based on thoroughly incomprehensible notions, and when this was pointed out, the argument was that Martin is super elitist and has written the books in such a way to deliberately make it impossible for anyone but the geniuses who have read everything ever published in world history to be able to 'decipher' the clues. And I was like, 'WUT?'. So, if it's a real theory w/ thought put into it and textual support, I don't think mockery is warranted at all. That would be narrow-minded and petty imo. But since the thread is about just that, I will name the theories that I laugh at because they are the very worst ever: anything by the Order of the Green Hand. Seriously. Many-Faced Votary, Raven Princling, Sandy Clegg and 5 others 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.