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Viserys, the Weakheart


Craving Peaches

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Why was he such a pathetic coward?

It can't just be due to his lifestyle, because Daenerys was subject to exactly the same lifestyle (from a younger age as well) and is quite brave, and nowhere near as pathetic. Could it be the loss of his privileged position? Was he just innately pathetic and cowardly? He only ever picks on those weaker than himself, he abuses perhaps the only person who loved him and actually cared for him, he threatens his sisters innocent unborn child along with her...this is interestingly one of the few instances were he was showing some sort of bravery, despite his cowardly choice of target, by drawing steel where it was forbidden in a room full of Dothraki...but it all could have just been the drink.

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6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Peaches honestly, how easy could have been for this little iguana to grow up in the shadow of The Dragon Rhaegar? 

For a large part of his life Rhaegar was dead though, and that shouldn't mean he treats Daenerys worse off...?

Ned was in Brandon's shadow and he isn't cowardly.

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On 2/16/2023 at 2:48 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Why was he such a pathetic coward?

It can't just be due to his lifestyle, because Daenerys was subject to exactly the same lifestyle (from a younger age as well) and is quite brave, and nowhere near as pathetic. Could it be the loss of his privileged position? Was he just innately pathetic and cowardly? He only ever picks on those weaker than himself, he abuses perhaps the only person who loved him and actually cared for him, he threatens his sisters innocent unborn child along with her...this is interestingly one of the few instances were he was showing some sort of bravery, despite his cowardly choice of target, by drawing steel where it was forbidden in a room full of Dothraki...but it all could have just been the drink.

I don't get the sense that he was cowardly, just foolish. He was willing to fight to regain his crown, but with little in the way of formal training his skill at arms probably was not all that good. He was willing to lead an army of savages, but he had no real skills there either, nor any great knowledge of the savages he would be leading or how they think. He felt he was entitled to fealty from everyone he met, but failed to realize that he would have to earn that respect now.

So maybe if he was a little more cowardly he'd still be alive, and maybe leading his Dothraki horde.

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25 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

I don't get the sense that he was cowardly, just foolish. He was willing to fight to regain his crown, but with little in the way of formal training his skill at arms probably was not all that good. He was willing to lead an army of savages, but he had no real skills there either, nor any great knowledge of the savages he would be leading or how they think. He felt he was entitled to fealty from everyone he met, but failed to realize that he would have to earn that respect now.

So maybe if he was a little more cowardly he'd still be alive, and maybe leading his Dothraki horde.

Why did Darry never train him? He had at least 5 years to work with him and what we see out of Viserys is quite pathetic.

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1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

I don't get the sense that he was cowardly, just foolish.

He was both imo. 

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

He was willing to fight to regain his crown

He said that he would fight, yes. That doesn’t mean in any way, shape or form that he would actually fight if it came to that. As @Craving Peaches said, he was always picking on those weaker than himself, and the way he’s always treated Dany was appalling. Just look at his personality traits: weak, pretentious, entitled, petty, paranoid, narcissistic - to name a few; based on these alone it makes much more sense that he’d shit himself if faced w/ real combat. And he wasn’t being brave when he finally got what he had coming, that was just the cocktail of booze w/ a generous dose of entitlement. 
There are other Targaryens that show similar flaws, like Aerion and Aerys. 
Seriously, what an arsehole. 

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I have quite a lot of sympathy for Viserys, in some ways. Having had a very sheltered upbringing until the age of about 6, suddenly his whole family is horribly killed apart from his baby sister, and he's told that his life is in constant peril because Big Bad Bob won't rest until he and Dany are six feet under too. At the same time he has all the expectations of his dynasty heaped on his head, being expected to reclaim the throne. At the age of 11 he's made homeless and thrown out on his ear and has to wander a foreign continent, growing increasingly impoverished, being repeatedly humiliated, and having to hawk the possessions that are all that he has left of his family and to remind him of who he's been told he really is. From one perspective, that he and Dany survive as long as they do is a tribute to Viserys's fortitude and strength of character.

It's not surprising he's seriously damaged. It's also not that surprising that he cracks completely after Illyrio turns up out of nowhere, gets him geared up for an invasion of Westeros to fulfil his life's ambition and set everything to rights, and then his brother-in-law doesn't honour the deal because he basically can't be bothered.

Yes, he's a creep and a weirdo and not a very pleasant person, and he shouldn't be trying to rape his sister or to stab his pregnant sister in the belly. That's not excusable. But unlike most of the crazy Targs Viserys does at least have a reason to be screwed up.

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3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Perhaps, but he always seems to only pick on those he thinks are weaker or beneath him, which I think is a sign of cowardice.

He thought everyone was beneath him.  Makes you wonder how he actually was raised back when he was at the palace because Rhaella sure didn't have time to spoil him all by her self.  I'm not sure Darry had enough money to put that attitude into him.  

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3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

He thought everyone was beneath him.  Makes you wonder how he actually was raised back when he was at the palace because Rhaella sure didn't have time to spoil him all by her self.  I'm not sure Darry had enough money to put that attitude into him.  

Aerys played a big part in raising him, at least as a child, it seems, and Viserys won't remember a time before Duskendale when his father wasn't a complete fruitloop. He was probably also spoiled rotten, since Aerys in his paranoia was probably already cooling on Rhaegar and eyeing up Viserys as a potential replacement heir.

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2 hours ago, Adelstein said:

From one perspective, that he and Dany survive as long as they do is a tribute to Viserys's fortitude and strength of character.

It's not surprising he's seriously damaged. It's also not that surprising that he cracks completely after Illyrio turns up out of nowhere, gets him geared up for an invasion of Westeros to fulfil his life's ambition and set everything to rights, and then his brother-in-law doesn't honour the deal because he basically can't be bothered.

Yes, he's a creep and a weirdo and not a very pleasant person, and he shouldn't be trying to rape his sister or to stab his pregnant sister in the belly. That's not excusable. But unlike most of the crazy Targs Viserys does at least have a reason to be screwed up.

That's not how it really happened, though.  Viserys was told repeatedly that he would have Westeros when the time was right for the hoard.  He was impatient.  Remember, he never asked Drogo or his riders or even Dany to actual council with him.  That was beneath him.   

Viserys behaved much as I imagine his father did--erratic, irrational, unsympathetic and impatient.  He could have changed his fate at any time because none of this is cruel behavior.  It's childish behavior.  

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6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

He thought everyone was beneath him.  Makes you wonder how he actually was raised back when he was at the palace because Rhaella sure didn't have time to spoil him all by her self.  I'm not sure Darry had enough money to put that attitude into him.  

Barristan said the mad Targaryen side was somewhat present.

2 hours ago, Adelstein said:

I have quite a lot of sympathy for Viserys, in some ways. Having had a very sheltered upbringing until the age of about 6, suddenly his whole family is horribly killed apart from his baby sister, and he's told that his life is in constant peril because Big Bad Bob won't rest until he and Dany are six feet under too. At the same time he has all the expectations of his dynasty heaped on his head, being expected to reclaim the throne. At the age of 11 he's made homeless and thrown out on his ear and has to wander a foreign continent, growing increasingly impoverished, being repeatedly humiliated, and having to hawk the possessions that are all that he has left of his family and to remind him of who he's been told he really is. From one perspective, that he and Dany survive as long as they do is a tribute to Viserys's fortitude and strength of character.

It's not surprising he's seriously damaged. It's also not that surprising that he cracks completely after Illyrio turns up out of nowhere, gets him geared up for an invasion of Westeros to fulfil his life's ambition and set everything to rights, and then his brother-in-law doesn't honour the deal because he basically can't be bothered.

Yes, he's a creep and a weirdo and not a very pleasant person, and he shouldn't be trying to rape his sister or to stab his pregnant sister in the belly. That's not excusable. But unlike most of the crazy Targs Viserys does at least have a reason to be screwed up.

Well, there were a couple points where actions could have been taken where he wouldn't have been such a mess. For one, Doran had this plan with Viserys as the centerpiece and could have stepped in once Willem Darry died, but he didn't for less than justifiable reasons.

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Just now, Curled Finger said:

That's not how it really happened, though.  Viserys was told repeatedly that he would have Westeros when the time was right for the hoard.  He was impatient.  Remember, he never asked Drogo or his riders or even Dany to actual council with him.  That was beneath him.   

Viserys behaved much as I imagine his father did--erratic, irrational, unsympathetic and impatient.  He could have changed his fate at any time because none of this is cruel behavior.  It's childish behavior.  

Except Viserys would have known that the Dothraki only respect strength, strength he doesn't have. So the Dothraki don't respect him.

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Just now, Angel Eyes said:

Except Viserys would have known that the Dothraki only respect strength, strength he doesn't have. So the Dothraki don't respect him.

Perhaps if he had taken council and behaved differently it might have worked differently for him.  He got his crown in the end.  He should have nothing to complain about.  

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