Jump to content

Viserys, the Weakheart


Craving Peaches

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Perhaps if he had taken council and behaved differently it might have worked differently for him.  He got his crown in the end.  He should have nothing to complain about.  

Lol cold.

Nah that dude was screwed. He developed an affliction in his later life, and if he managed to live through it or if it never came about, he'd run into it eventually. I am of course talking about the curse of having a nephew.

 

So we meet Viserys, super charming guy. Ready to sell his sister to some horses and pinches her nipples for good luck. Except it ain't him. It's the big guy. He invited Drogo in, he told Viserys to wait, he's you know, the big guy. And the big guy got big plans

Quote

"The fat man's plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

But they don't really involve Viserys. According to Illyrios wish fountain, he was supposed to team up with Young Griff, because Viserys was just born to be a nuncle. Like how he acted when Dany was expecting 

Quote

Tell him I want what I bargained for, or I'm taking you back. You and the eggs both. He can keep his bloody foal. I'll cut the bastard out and leave it for him." The sword point pushed through her silks and pricked at her navel. Viserys was weeping, she saw; weeping and laughing, both at the same time, this man who had once been her brother.

Some men just aren't ready for their sister or dead brother to become a parent 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Why did Darry never train him? He had at least 5 years to work with him and what we see out of Viserys is quite pathetic.

Maybe he did, but Vis was only 12 or so when Darry died and they had to flee. That's hardly enough time to turn him into a proficient swordsman. It's hard to say how well he wielded a sword given that we never saw him in actual battle. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Perhaps, but he always seems to only pick on those he thinks are weaker or beneath him, which I think is a sign of cowardice.

Well, he thought everyone was beneath him. But there is a fine line between being brave and being foolhardy (see Andros Brax). Was it brave of him to demand his army from Drogo, or foolish?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

He was both imo. 

He said that he would fight, yes. That doesn’t mean in any way, shape or form that he would actually fight if it came to that. As @Craving Peaches said, he was always picking on those weaker than himself, and the way he’s always treated Dany was appalling. Just look at his personality traits: weak, pretentious, entitled, petty, paranoid, narcissistic - to name a few; based on these alone it makes much more sense that he’d shit himself if faced w/ real combat. And he wasn’t being brave when he finally got what he had coming, that was just the cocktail of booze w/ a generous dose of entitlement. 
There are other Targaryens that show similar flaws, like Aerion and Aerys. 
Seriously, what an arsehole. 

Booze or no, he demanded his army from Drogo, who was surrounded by his bloodriders. Was that brave? Or foolhardy?

He managed to keep Dany and himself alive on the streets of the free cities for over a decade, when he was just a boy. An utterly weak, cowardly person could not have done that. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Booze or no, he demanded his army from Drogo, who was surrounded by his bloodriders. Was that brave? Or foolhardy?

It was a drunk and entitled prick acting like a drunk and entitled prick. 

18 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

He managed to keep Dany and himself alive on the streets of the free cities for over a decade, when he was just a boy. An utterly weak, cowardly person could not have done that. 

 

If he did manage that then an utterly weak and cowardly person could b/c he did. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

But there is a fine line between being brave and being foolhardy (see Andros Brax). Was it brave of him to demand his army from Drogo, or foolish?

Foolish. He only did it because he was carrying a weapon and thought they couldn't harm him due to their laws. He acted that way because he thought there would be no reprisals. So it's hardly brave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Adelstein said:

I have quite a lot of sympathy for Viserys, in some ways. Having had a very sheltered upbringing until the age of about 6, suddenly his whole family is horribly killed apart from his baby sister, and he's told that his life is in constant peril because Big Bad Bob won't rest until he and Dany are six feet under too. At the same time he has all the expectations of his dynasty heaped on his head, being expected to reclaim the throne. At the age of 11 he's made homeless and thrown out on his ear and has to wander a foreign continent, growing increasingly impoverished, being repeatedly humiliated, and having to hawk the possessions that are all that he has left of his family and to remind him of who he's been told he really is. From one perspective, that he and Dany survive as long as they do is a tribute to Viserys's fortitude and strength of character.

It's not surprising he's seriously damaged. It's also not that surprising that he cracks completely after Illyrio turns up out of nowhere, gets him geared up for an invasion of Westeros to fulfil his life's ambition and set everything to rights, and then his brother-in-law doesn't honour the deal because he basically can't be bothered.

Yes, he's a creep and a weirdo and not a very pleasant person, and he shouldn't be trying to rape his sister or to stab his pregnant sister in the belly. That's not excusable. But unlike most of the crazy Targs Viserys does at least have a reason to be screwed up.

Thank you!! 
 

I have always sympathized with Viserys and always will. His story is unfair and tragic. He lost too much at a young age. He was old enough to see it all fall and young enough to feel the aftermath of what he lost. 
 

Viserys lost a mother, his home, brother, niece and nephew(he knew them because they were at the Red Keep)and no matter how crazy Aerys was, Viserys lost a father. He gained a newborn sister and the weight of keeping the Targaryens line alive and regaining a stolen crown. 
 

Dany had her own trauma but she never carried what Viserys did. 
 

Also I’ll always shout this from the rooftop and beyond,but Viserys is probably one of the most tragic characters in the series. He alone with Catelyn and the smallfolk are the most tragic. 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Just like Rhaegar. So focused on the future, yet doesn't see his own death...

Oh no, he knew it was coming but viserys knew for the greater good he had to treat Dany how he did to raise her strong to be ready to do what she has to do, then get himself killed so she can inherit!

21 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Perhaps, but he always seems to only pick on those he thinks are weaker or beneath him, which I think is a sign of cowardice.

He does pick on those stronger and above him as that what got him killed haha but then again he probably saw then as weaker and beneath him lol.

17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Barristan said the mad Targaryen side was somewhat present

I chose not to believe his opinion lol and class him as an unreliable narrator ha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CassDarry said:

He does pick on those stronger and above him as that what got him killed haha but then again he probably saw then as weaker and beneath him lol.

But at that moment they didn't have a weapon. And Viserys thought they couldn't harm him because of their laws. So he probably viewed them as the weaker party in that moment. He picked on them because he thought he was in a relative position of strength.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

But at that moment they didn't have a weapon. And Viserys thought they couldn't harm him because of their laws. So he probably viewed them as the weaker party in that moment. He picked on them because he thought he was in a relative position of strength.

And plastered. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

But at that moment they didn't have a weapon. And Viserys thought they couldn't harm him because of their laws. So he probably viewed them as the weaker party in that moment. He picked on them because he thought he was in a relative position of strength.

Yeah, but I like to think better of the King hahah

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

But at that moment they didn't have a weapon. And Viserys thought they couldn't harm him because of their laws. So he probably viewed them as the weaker party in that moment. He picked on them because he thought he was in a relative position of strength.

There's plenty of ways to kill people without shedding blood. Hanging is one, drowning is another. Plus is being crowned with molten gold (the show sold itself short because the gold should have been glowing and would have created a very cool effect if pulled off).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2023 at 2:48 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Why was he such a pathetic coward?

It can't just be due to his lifestyle, because Daenerys was subject to exactly the same lifestyle (from a younger age as well) and is quite brave, and nowhere near as pathetic. Could it be the loss of his privileged position? Was he just innately pathetic and cowardly? He only ever picks on those weaker than himself, he abuses perhaps the only person who loved him and actually cared for him, he threatens his sisters innocent unborn child along with her...this is interestingly one of the few instances were he was showing some sort of bravery, despite his cowardly choice of target, by drawing steel where it was forbidden in a room full of Dothraki...but it all could have just been the drink.

Prince Viserys or King Viserys III has been compared to Rhaegar and their little sister, Princess Daenerys.  It's not fair to him.  In my opinion, Viserys was an average guy.  A true coward would forget the Iron Throne instead of persistently trying to find allies to help him continue the war.  You cannot blame a guy who does not know how to handle a sword for being afraid.  Take Joffrey away from his guards and drop him off in the Free Cities to make it on his own and the boy would have PTSD before too long.  How about Samwell before he joined the Watch.  Dump his considerable bulk in the Free Cities to make it on his own and he would crawl into a ball and waste away.  Viserys was not a coward.  He was weak and afraid because he never got the training to defend himself.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, James West said:

Prince Viserys or King Viserys III has been compared to Rhaegar and their little sister, Princess Daenerys.  It's not fair to him.  In my opinion, Viserys was an average guy.  A true coward would forget the Iron Throne instead of persistently trying to find allies to help him continue the war.  You cannot blame a guy who does not know how to handle a sword for being afraid.  Take Joffrey away from his guards and drop him off in the Free Cities to make it on his own and the boy would have PTSD before too long.  How about Samwell before he joined the Watch.  Dump his considerable bulk in the Free Cities to make it on his own and he would crawl into a ball and waste away.  Viserys was not a coward.  He was weak and afraid because he never got the training to defend himself.  

As I said in an earlier post there was an inflection point where Viserys could have turned out better. That was if Doran Martell had decided to help him after Willem Darry died, and he had more reasons to do so than not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Foolish. He only did it because he was carrying a weapon and thought they couldn't harm him due to their laws. He acted that way because he thought there would be no reprisals. So it's hardly brave.

 

On 2/22/2023 at 11:17 AM, kissdbyfire said:

It was a drunk and entitled prick acting like a drunk and entitled prick. 

If he did manage that then an utterly weak and cowardly person could b/c he did. 

Well who does anything brave then? Nobody puts themself in a situation where they know they're going to die. Was Tyrion brave or foolish when he led the sortie on the Blackwater? Or when he boarded the burning ship on the river? He called Brax a fool for doing the same thing.

Was Ned brave or foolish when he challenged Joffrey's legitimacy? Or when he took Gared's head off? Wasn't that Ned exerting his power over someone weaker than him?

Was Jorah brave or foolish, or cowardly, when he prevented Viserys, a younger, weaker man with far less fighting skill, from stealing an egg?

Was Dany brave when she walked into the fire?

So it seems you've set up a no-win situation here. Depending on whether you like a character or not, their actions are either brave or foolish, noble or cowardly, smart or stupid, regardless of their states of mind at the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Was Tyrion brave or foolish when he led the sortie on the Blackwater?

That's and the other examples are not the same. In all of the above they knew it was a real possibility they could die. Viserys thought he couldn't be harmed because he was the only one with a weapon and the Dothraki aren't allowed to attack people in Vaes Dothrak. He is acting under the assumption he is immune from repercussions in this scenario. Viserys actually spells this out:

Quote

Viserys laughed. "They can't kill us. They can't shed blood here in the sacred city … but I can."

42 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Depending on whether you like a character or not

It has nothing to do with liking or not liking characters. It is a matter of logic. 'Brave' is defined as:

Quote

ready to face and endure danger or pain; showing courage:

So it follows that you cannot be brave in Viserys' scenario. Because he does not expect any danger or pain in the first place, so how can he be ready to face it? He thinks that no one can harm him because they are all unarmed and he is not, he is the only one with a weapon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/21/2023 at 11:03 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Perhaps, but he always seems to only pick on those he thinks are weaker or beneath him, which I think is a sign of cowardice.

It's a sign of being a  Targaryen. When has any Targaryen picked on someone stronger or above them? I can think of some rare instances but those boys were... quite Strong themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...