Why Do People & GRRM Like Daemon Targaryen?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

16 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

How many times have we had this conversation? You seem to have an incorrect (as per Mr. Martin's own words) understanding of him and his work.

Well, judging by what I heard from GRRM, the way he talked about the scouring of the Shire, for example, he wants his own ending to be something along the lines of “the big threat is defeated, but the characters are unable to go back the the way they lived before”.

Which might be bittersweet in his eyes, but many readers might find just bitter. The same way he view Daemon as grey, but many fans see as simply evil.

[Alester Florent]

As with so many things, I think it's been so long since the last book that people have overanalysed everything, and people are looking at GRRM's statement that the ending will be "bittersweet" is presented as if it gives us genuine insight rather than being entirely obvious.

From where we are now in the series, the happiest ending possible will inevitably be somewhat bittersweet. It won't bring Ned, Robb, Cat, Lady, etc. back to life. Bran will never walk again. Jaime's hand won't grow back. All the bad shizz will still have gone down. A purely happy (or "sweet" ending) is pretty much impossible.

On the other hand, the chances of GRRM pulling a full-on downer ending where everyone is dead, all hope is lost, game over, stop reading, are remote because nobody does that in an epic of this type. The ending is surely going to end on a somewhat upbeat note compared to where we currently are (which is surely towards the nadir of the overall plot arc in terms of how bad things are getting).

So a "bittersweet" ending is entirely to be expected and if it didn't happen it would be a major subversion. When people ask how the ending will be and GRRM says "bittersweet", I see that as his way of answering the question while giving nothing away or telling anyone anything they shouldn't already expect if they're familiar with narrative media.

[Many-Faced Votary]

12 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Well, judging by what I heard from GRRM, the way he talked about the scouring of the Shire, for example, he wants his own ending to be something along the lines of “the big threat is defeated, but the characters are unable to go back the the way they lived before”.

Which might be bittersweet in his eyes, but many readers might find just bitter. The same way he view Daemon as grey, but many fans see as simply evil.

Refer to @Adelstein's excellent comment for a more eloquent response than my reply would have been.

Even with the happiest possible ending suddenly happening at the moment we are in the books, none of the characters will ever be able to go back to the way they lived before. Furthermore, they will have to rebuild after the War for the Dawn and years of bloody war even before then; the societal, institutional, familial, and physical damages won't just vanish into the ether.

People erroneously think that "bittersweet" means "bitter," maybe in some part due to how dark the series can get, failing to realize that it isn't grimdark nihilistic garbage like the abomination and never was. I think the penultimate book in the series will be darker still, all the heroes at their lowest points personally; but the ultimate book will be a new hope, a dream of spring.

Mr. Martin has singled Daemon out as a dark shade of grey. His point is that there is very rarely unredeemable evil, and by that assessment, it would be incorrect to reductively call him evil; Daemon is not comparable to someone like Ramsay. He also isn't lacking in complexity; the why of his actions also matter.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

@The hairy bear

Rhaenyra married Laenor when she was 16 so Daemon's grooming and seduction had to have taken place when she was 14 or 15. Also, its said that Daemon liked to deflower virgin prostitutes, some of whom would undoubtedly be considered minors* in and out of setting.

*minors meaning below the age of majority