Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 These trolls are really annoying, everyone knows that there's nothing to justify or excuse the Red Wedding and that the Freys aren't in any position to talk about oaths or honor. Many-Faced Votary and Northern Sword 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 31 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said: These trolls are really annoying, everyone knows that there's nothing to justify or excuse the Red Wedding and that the Freys aren't in any position to talk about oaths or honor. You can’t call them trolls. You have to tell Ran. If you think they are Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Guys if you really think a post is a troll post report it. Otherwise nothing will be done except futile arguing. Edited February 17 by Craving Peaches Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Guys if you really think they are trolling report it. Otherwise nothing will be done except futile arguing. Nah you’ll get points Many-Faced Votary and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said: Nah you’ll get points But we have been told to report troll posts. Why would we be penalised for doing as we're told? Just to make it clear, I am not saying whether this is a troll post or not. I am just asking for clarification. Edited February 17 by Craving Peaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 My hesitance in reporting these posts is that they are nebulous enough and just barely sufficiently connected to the text that it cannot be readily "proven" that these accounts are trolling. These boards are pretty large, and it's possible we'll give moderators a headache in trying to decide how to respond to these posts or force an unrealistic case-by-case course of action, or waste their time when there are more egregious offenses elsewhere. EggBlue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 hours ago, The Gizzard of Oz said: Robb was attracted to Jeyne and he wanted her. He didn't want to marry a Frey. He only made up justifications to support his decision. Exactly! This sound argument can’t be disputed at all since we have Robb’s PoV and are in his head and see firsthand his thoughts and feelings on this matter. /s Terrorthatflapsinthenight9, Many-Faced Votary, Nathan Stark and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 24 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: But we have been told to report troll posts. Why would we be penalised for doing as we're told? Just to make it clear, I am not saying whether this is a troll post or not. I am just asking for clarification. I was saying if you don’t report and just say they are trolls, you get points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, SeanF said: After Tywin Lannister attacked the Riverlands, it was already Walder Frey’s duty, under feudal law, to march to the aid of his Tully overlords. Given that Robb was an ally to the Tullys, he actually had no business preventing his army from crossing the Trident. Nope he had alsp pledged to the king in person as he correctly points out. Also bizzarely when you think about it the tullys never subdued and made vassals of the freys , they are overlords of the riverlands only because the targs placed them there! The very same targs hoster asked them to stand against! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Feudal vows don't have to be renewed every time there is a new lord (either overlord or vassal), nor does fealty have to flow directly from an oath if a higher overlord grants a lord dominion over a region. Homage would be useless as a concept if either of these things were true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Nope he had alsp pledged to the king in person as he correctly points out. Also bizzarely when you think about it the tullys never subdued and made vassals of the freys , they are overlords of the riverlands only because the targs placed them there! The very same targs hoster asked them to stand against! Whilst we don't have the details, I would assume that Walder Frey must have given oaths of homage to Hoster Tully. I think it's inaccurate to view Tywin's invasion of the Riverlands as being about the enforcement of royal authority against a rebellious vassal. EggBlue, Many-Faced Votary and Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, SeanF said: I think it's inaccurate to view Tywin's invasion of the Riverlands as being about the enforcement of royal authority against a rebellious vassal. In fact, beyond it being a truly reprehensible act and the actual start of the War of the Five Kings, Tywin had broken the king's peace by doing so, and Ned (as Hand) had summoned him to King's Landing or else be declared an enemy to the Iron Throne. EggBlue and Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: In fact, beyond it being a truly reprehensible act and the actual start of the War of the Five Kings, Tywin had broken the king's peace by doing so, and Ned (as Hand) had summoned him to King's Landing or else be declared an enemy to the Iron Throne. If Cersei’s moronic assassination plot failed and Robert returned from his hunting trip, Tywin would have to go to KL, or all of Westeros would be called against the Lannisters Many-Faced Votary, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9, EggBlue and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 And for all his talk about having made an oath to the king, Walder Frey didn't move a finger to fullfil his duties for the king either. It's clearly just a convenient excuse to him. Many-Faced Votary and Nathan Stark 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 6 hours ago, The Gizzard of Oz said: Robb Stark's worst sin is not the murder of Rickard Karstark. It was his betrayal of House Frey. He broke his oath to the Freys because he wanted Jeyne Westerling. He followed the calling of his heart instead of doing what he had sworn to do. This is far from a minor sin. Robb broke what is the equivalent of a contract and the other party is entitled to compensation. The cheated party is also entitled to inflict Robb with punitive damages. https://slate.com/business/2013/06/game-of-thrones-economics-red-wedding-robb-stark-and-breach-of-trust-in-marriage-alliances.html Robb Stark was the stronger party and punishing him was beyond the capabilities of the Freys. An ambush like the red wedding was the only means the Freys had to punish Robb. It was also the price requested by Lord Tywin before he allows the rebel lords Walder and Roose to win their way back to peace with King Joffrey. Seen from this view, what Walder decided is perfectly understandable. Roose had his own reason and even they can be justified. Rickard Karstark was one of the men supporting Robb's rebellion. It was stupid to execute him. Camp Stark made many tactical mistakes and most were by Robb and Cat. The sneaky release of Jaime was a big mistake. Breaking the promise to Walder was bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Karstark murdered Tully guards, and made his king a liar in the eyes of the world. His execution was fully justified. If Robb should be criticised for anything, it’s the hanging of young women, and the brutal vengeance taken against Western peasants, not killing a mutineer or hurting Walder Frey’s feelings. EggBlue, sweetsunray, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 14 minutes ago, SeanF said: Karstark murdered Tully guards, and made his king a liar in the eyes of the world. His execution was fully justified. If Robb should be criticised for anything, it’s the hanging of young women, and the brutal vengeance taken against Western peasants, not killing a mutineer or hurting Walder Frey’s feelings. Robb is way worse than a liar. He broke his oath. It was stupid tactically and politically to execute Karstark. Robb was a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, SeanF said: Whilst we don't have the details, I would assume that Walder Frey must have given oaths of homage to Hoster Tully. I think it's inaccurate to view Tywin's invasion of the Riverlands as being about the enforcement of royal authority against a rebellious vassal. Given oaths to both or at least to the crown. When tywin openly invades it is open stark vs lannister crown war, bobby b is dead.What tywin does from there has the backing of the crown,.striking before the riverlamds,north and vale can unite their considerable force for the 'treacherous ned stark' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: Robb is way worse than a liar. He broke his oath. It was stupid tactically and politically to execute Karstark. Robb was a fool. An oath taken under extortion isn’t the same as one made in good faith. Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and EggBlue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: Robb is way worse than a liar. He broke his oath. It was stupid tactically and politically to execute Karstark. Robb was a fool. Maybe Robb swore an oath in whatever cheap low-quality fanfic you’ve read, but not in the books written by Martin. You should try reading them, you might learn a thing or 103. Edited February 17 by kissdbyfire sweetsunray, Many-Faced Votary, Northern Sword and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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