UK Politics - Now is the Spring of our Discontent

[Derfel Cadarn]

21 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

30 hours free childcare. I won't hear a bad word about Jeremy Hunt. No idea where the spaces will come from to realise the benefits of getting people back to work, but my kid already has one. 

That's the equivalent of a 750 a quid a month back in my pocket (for 39 weeks a year). 

Yeah nurseries have been shutting down (where i live at least) so they might want to ensure there are actually enough places.

No idea about Englandshire, but in Scotland we get the following at the moment:

“You can get up to 1,140 hours of funded early learning and childcare a year (around 30 hours a week in term time) if your child is 3 or 4 years old. Some 2 year olds are also eligible. ”

[BigFatCoward]

The 30 hours free for 3/4 year olds Is not actually 'free' childcare though. It only covers (doesn't actually cover) staff costs. So they can charge for all sort of additional shit at exorbitant rates.

Averaged out over the year it covers us for 7.3 hours a day, for the 2.7 extra hours they still wanted £39 a day when the full day rate was £68. 

It wasn't until I asked for an itemised bill that they backed down to a more reasonable price. 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

I can't blame the costs on the nurseries really.  assuming the government only pays the staff cost at minimum wage for those free hours.  then the nurseries need to recoup the costs of the building, utilities, meals and activates (paint/ paper/ crayons / replacing damaged toys)  Plus there is a shed load of admin involved in childcare these days.

 

Its a similar problem a lot of nursing homes face.  the prices the council pays is a lot less and not enough to cover the costs so the extra is funded from the private resident fees making it more expensive for those that don't qualify for free care.  or if they have too many council funded places they end up closing down.

 

And now with the cost of energy its only making a bad situation worse.

[Raja]

Quote

In another WhatsApp message from Sunday 24 October 2021, a senior editor asked journalists to make coverage more critical of Labour after a complaint from No 10.

The message reads: “D St complaining that we’re not reflecting Labour’s mess of plan b online. ie Ashworth said it earlier this week, then reversed. Can we turn up the scepticism a bit on this?”

[BigFatCoward]

50 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

I can't blame the costs on the nurseries really.  assuming the government only pays the staff cost at minimum wage for those free hours.  then the nurseries need to recoup the costs of the building, utilities, meals and activates (paint/ paper/ crayons / replacing damaged toys)  Plus there is a shed load of admin involved in childcare these days.

 

Its a similar problem a lot of nursing homes face.  the prices the council pays is a lot less and not enough to cover the costs so the extra is funded from the private resident fees making it more expensive for those that don't qualify for free care.  or if they have too many council funded places they end up closing down.

 

And now with the cost of energy its only making a bad situation worse.

I can't blame the nurseries for trying to recoup the genuine additional costs, hence why I asked for an itemised bill.  However they are absolutely not allowed to get people to 'top up' any shortfall in the staffing costs due to government underfunding. 

  

[Pebble thats Stubby]

10 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I can't blame the nurseries for trying to recoup the genuine additional costs, hence why I asked for an itemised bill.  However they are absolutely not allowed to get people to 'top up' any shortfall in the staffing costs due to government underfunding. 

  

they might not be allowed and it might not be right.  But someone has to pay for the shortfall in staffing costs.  Either the staff being paid less.  Most are allready minimum wage.  the government.  the clients (by putting up prices) or the business.  and if the business is already only breaking even where can they re-coup the costs from without closing down?

 

Most nurseries really do not make profits. or very very little.

 

 

edit - Let me be clear  I am not against free nursery hours.  I just think the nurseries should be paid enough to cover all the costs of these free hours.  or they end up not actually being free.   (yes I know they are not free cos Taxes)

[Heartofice]

I've always wondered why the UK has such extortionate nursery costs compared to the rest of the world. I did assume that there must be issues around the insanities of the UK housing market which pushes up those costs, but it can't explain all of it.

What I did learn today is that the UK has one of the strictest, if not the strictest rules around child to carer ratios around. So we need more child care workers in every nursery compared to pretty much everyone else. On the face of it that seems good, but it also makes child care costs higher. Any attempt to change these rules usually gets met with howls of outrage, even if it just aligns us with countries like those in Scandinavia. 

I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons like that just get hidden under the bonnet.

[BigFatCoward]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I've always wondered why the UK has such extortionate nursery costs compared to the rest of the world. I did assume that there must be issues around the insanities of the UK housing market which pushes up those costs, but it can't explain all of it.

What I did learn today is that the UK has one of the strictest, if not the strictest rules around child to carer ratios around. So we need more child care workers in every nursery compared to pretty much everyone else. On the face of it that seems good, but it also makes child care costs higher. Any attempt to change these rules usually gets met with howls of outrage, even if it just aligns us with countries like those in Scandinavia. 

I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons like that just get hidden under the bonnet.

That might explain some of it, but the costs of childcare over here are about 5x the cost in Norway, where the minimum wage is so much higher that any difference in staff to child ratio would be wiped out.  Its just that this country is shit.  

 

Favourite Fiona Bruce Meme so far

'I do need to clarify Mr West was a very reasonably priced builder'

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Just now, BigFatCoward said:

That might explain some of it, but the costs of childcare over here are about 5x the cost in Norway, where the minimum wage is so much higher that any difference in staff to child ratio would be wiped out.  Its just that this country is shit.  

 

Favourite Fiona Bruce Meme so far

'I do need to clarify Mr West was a very reasonably priced builder'

 

“Did cracking work on patios.”

[Pebble thats Stubby]

• One adult for every three children under two years olds;
• One adult for every four children aged two;
• One adult for every eight children aged three and over (the ratio is 1:13 if led by a teacher).

44 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

That might explain some of it, but the costs of childcare over here are about 5x the cost in Norway, where the minimum wage is so much higher that any difference in staff to child ratio would be wiped out.  Its just that this country is shit.  

 

Favourite Fiona Bruce Meme so far

'I do need to clarify Mr West was a very reasonably priced builder'

 

You are right this country is shit.  also Nursery staff should be getting more than Minimum wage for the amount of work they have to do and the qualifications they need.  Its also a shit dead end job with no or very little progression. 

 

I guess Norway's governement actually provides a lot more funding for childcare which greatly offest the costs parents have to pay.  I wonder what the actual cost per hour is  (combined government / parent paying).  It might be closer than you think.

[Derfel Cadarn]

21 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

• One adult for every three children under two years olds;
• One adult for every four children aged two;
• One adult for every eight children aged three and over (the ratio is 1:13 if led by a teacher).

You are right this country is shit.  also Nursery staff should be getting more than Minimum wage for the amount of work they have to do and the qualifications they need.  Its also a shit dead end job with no or very little progression. 

 

I guess Norway's governement actually provides a lot more funding for childcare which greatly offest the costs parents have to pay.  I wonder what the actual cost per hour is  (combined government / parent paying).  It might be closer than you think.

My daughter’s nursery is private - they get paid more than council nurseries, but there’s the trade-off that they don’t get the ‘school’ holidays.