Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 51 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Trussian. its funny how far apart the UK and US are on religion in politics, over there you can't get elected unless you lie about beleiving in the big shiny man in the sky. Over here, even right wing zealots are a bit 'i don't mind you being a racist/sexist/homophobic, but i'd rather you weren't a fucking cretin'. Give it time. Your conservatives are moving in our direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 44 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said: This is true, but a bit of a misnomer. Britain is a multi-faith community, and if you are going to have an appointed legislature, the important thing is that all faiths and none have equal representation. Obviously the primacy of the House of Lords, and the Bishop of Bath and Wells vetoing legislation made by elected representatives is indefensible, but that is also now more than a hundred years gone. The problem with Kate Forbes doesn't seem to be her religious views, it's that she won't make a Kennedyesque statement that she will follow the national interest instead of trying to convert her (no doubt) deeply and sincerely held religious views into law: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600 There are twenty-six bishops in the HoL. And every single one of them can vote against legislation drafted by our elected representatives. And every single one of them voted against Gay Marriage. Also, I'm not sure what your point is regarding multi-faith representation. I mean, there are a whole bunch of unelected Anglican bishops in the HoL, but not a single Catholic bishop, rabbi, or iman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Also, I'm not sure what your point is regarding multi-faith representation. High AND low church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said: The problem with Kate Forbes doesn't seem to be her religious views, it's that she won't make a Kennedyesque statement that she will follow the national interest instead of trying to convert her (no doubt) deeply and sincerely held religious views into law: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600 She sort of has, if you watch the above video, for example. But she's done such a terrible job of it that really, it's pretty clear by now that she hasn't the communications capability to win an election, whatever you think of her politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 31 minutes ago, Spockydog said: There are twenty-six bishops in the HoL. And every single one of them can vote against legislation drafted by our elected representatives. And every single one of them voted against Gay Marriage. Also, I'm not sure what your point is regarding multi-faith representation. I mean, there are a whole bunch of unelected Anglican bishops in the HoL, but not a single Catholic bishop, rabbi, or iman. I didn't say vote against, I said veto. The House of Commons can override the Lords and does. I don't mean to defend the existing constitutional settlement or the HoL. It's been a disgrace for a long time even before BoJo got on the scene. But if you have an appointed body (which, again, I don't think you should have), then it should draw from all the major national institutions including the major faiths. There have been some nods towards this, for example, Jonathan Sacks was in the Lords until he passed away, and in an ideal world you would have members of every faith in there. The problem is it's just ad-hocery and he's a good chap (it's usually a he), in terms of appointments which is no way to run a country. But better faith leaders than major donors to political parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Out of curiosity since we are discussing this topic, I read the Gordon Brown report on reforming the HoL: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Commission-on-the-UKs-Future.pdf (pp.134-144) It's pretty good and acknowledges the obvious: slim it down, get rid of hereditary peers, more representation for regions and nations of the UK. It kind of punts on appointment process, beyond suggesting a role for elected reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said: I didn't say vote against, I said veto. Um, what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said: But if you have an appointed body (which, again, I don't think you should have), then it should draw from all the major national institutions including the major faiths. I get the idea here: it's good to have national institutions represented other than political parties. But religions tend to get picked for these things because when you're looking for national institutions other than political parties, you don't see many visible/organised ones, so you light on religions because they're there and fit the bill - despite the fact that their claim to bring anything particularly useful to the table is shaky at best. Forget this national institutions business, is my advice. It's not actually good governance, it only looks like it ought to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 So the Scots are illiberal for rejecting her medieval bigotry? Does she even think before opening her maw? She needs to get in the fucking sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Very little fruit and veg in Sainsbos today. At last, a Brexit benefit. For my niece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Very little fruit and veg in Sainsbos today. At last, a Brexit benefit. For my niece. If only there was some logical explanation of what is happening.. if only there was something called the internet by which I could actually look it up instead of using my imagination...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64718823 "The shortages - which are affecting Ireland too - are largely the result of extreme weather in Spain and north Africa, where floods, snow and hail have affected harvests." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 So the chap above actually lives in Spain. But you keep on drinking the BBC kool-aid. Om nom nom. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Spockydog said: So the chap above actually lives in Spain. But you keep on drinking the BBC kool-aid. Om nom nom. Lol. Well you got me there. Some bloke on Twitter said something. I bow down to your greatness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Well you got me there. Some bloke on Twitter said something. I bow down to your greatness Alright then. Do me a favour and perform a google news search for "European food shortages." Then come back here and post some results that support your argument. I fucking dare you. Anyway, because I know that you won't, because there aren't, here is the top result. And, spoiler alert, there is fuck all in the news about any food shortages on mainland Europe. Supermarkets ration fruit and veg with energy prices blamed - but shelves in Europe are ‘heaving’ with fresh produce ETA: I just phoned my sister. No shortages in Geneva. Funny that, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Alright then. Do me a favour and perform a google news search for "European food shortages." Then come back here and post some results that support your argument. I fucking dare you. Anyway, because I know that you won't, because there aren't, here is the top result. And, spoiler alert, there is fuck all in the news about any food shortages on mainland Europe. Supermarkets ration fruit and veg with energy prices blamed - but shelves in Europe are ‘heaving’ with fresh produce Lol, good link backing up my point but highlighting that there are idiots on Twitter who say stupid things. Nice work yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Lol. Shall I get my sister to call you? European boarders, what is your experience? Are your major supermarkets struggling to put fresh produce on the shelves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Quote So the Scots are illiberal for rejecting her medieval bigotry? Does she even think before opening her maw? @Spockydog This confused the shit out of me too. Imagine she’d been to several rallies to support anti-abortion causes, or against gay marriage, or for conversion therapy. It wouldn’t be remotely controversial to utterly write her off for the job, as it’s clearly reflecting how she would approach the job. But stick a church in there as an irrelevant middle man, suddenly we’re all ‘well gosh, can’t criticise a religion’. Yep, you fucking can, if their doctrines are bullshit that would clearly compromise any adherent of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I..doubt she's going to win any leadership contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 21 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Lol. Shall I get my sister to call you? European boarders, what is your experience? Are your major supermarkets struggling to put fresh produce on the shelves? Yes! No cucumbers today or day before (plenty on Monday but obv all snatched up). tomatoes very scarce. I’ve noticed either less veg and also a lot of it is going bad earlier. There’s leas stuff on the shelves and what there is can be of mixed quality. This is my local Morrisons, not chexked Lidl, Asda or Aldi. Edit: just realised you were addressing the non-UK Europeans, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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