UK Politics - Now is the Spring of our Discontent

[Spockydog]

 

[ants]

2 hours ago, maarsen said:

As in Canada a new PM is expected to get a new mandate.

Why? Who is setting this expectation? It hasn’t been the case in the UK or Australia. 

[karaddin]

39 minutes ago, ants said:

Why? Who is setting this expectation? It hasn’t been the case in the UK or Australia. 

It was in Australia until recently though, Gillard did it because it was the expectation but then people acted like she hadn't anyway and the whole thing destroyed her despite scraping in the win. The coalition took away the message "don't call an election" and in each case it was long enough the voters got over it and now it's not the expectation anymore.

[Fragile Bird]

56 minutes ago, ants said:

Why? Who is setting this expectation? It hasn’t been the case in the UK or Australia. 

Lol, in Canada new leaders of the opposition have demanded an election call, so the people can voice their opinion. Much to their shamed chagrin, as Jean Chretien trounced their ass.

[Spockydog]

Lying cunt. Doesn't even bother trying to answer the question. Same old, same old.

 

Edited February 23 by Spockydog

[Spockydog]

Lol. Just seen his big five "missions". WTF is this shit?

He promised Corbynism without the Corbyn. Seems like he's now offering Toryism without the Tories.

 

 

Edited February 23 by Spockydog

[Spockydog]

Just in case anyone has forgotten. Here are the promises he made in order to get elected.

He has broken every single one of them.

 

[ants]

10 hours ago, karaddin said:

It was in Australia until recently though, Gillard did it because it was the expectation but then people acted like she hadn't anyway and the whole thing destroyed her despite scraping in the win. The coalition took away the message "don't call an election" and in each case it was long enough the voters got over it and now it's not the expectation anymore.

Gillard held the election in August, she'd have had to go in November anyway. It was questionable whether she held it a few months early due to needing a mandate or believing it was better timing than a few months later. 

9 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Lol, in Canada new leaders of the opposition have demanded an election call, so the people can voice their opinion. Much to their shamed chagrin, as Jean Chretien trounced their ass.

The opposition always demands an election, because that would be favourable for them. 

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, ants said:

The opposition always demands an election, because that would be favourable for them. 

Palpable untrue; unless you think that handing the tories a massive majority was "favourable" for Labour and Lib Dem in 2019 - the most recent GE herabouts.

Edited February 23 by Which Tyler

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

Palpable untrue; unless you think that handing the tories a massive majority was "favourable" for Labour and Lib Dem in 2019 - the most recent GE herabouts.

I think the point here is that by definition the opposition wants to get into government, so they have to ask for an election even if in some circumstances they would prefer not to have one or have a preferred timing.  Of course, they are not always right even when they have made their political calculations.  

IIRC, in reverse chronological order. BoJo called a snap election won handsomely.  May called a snap election and flopped.  Gordon Brown nearly called a snap election and regretted the decision not to do so bitterly (and the Tories later admitted they were not remotely prepared). 

For a PM in office, it's a gamble to keep something you already have so unless the fuse is burning short and you see storm clouds on the horizon, or you have a majority but a logjam, no real reason to call an election any sooner than you have to. 

[mormont]

I think the point is more that there really aren't any circumstances under which the opposition can be seen to not want an immediate election. Saying you're not ready for government is electoral madness. So if a PM resigns, the opposition have to call for an election.

[Gaston de Foix]

4 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Just in case anyone has forgotten. Here are the promises he made in order to get elected.

He has broken every single one of them.

 

I'm not defending Starmer exactly, but has he broken all 10? The graphic has a giant red cross but no explanation and some of these are quite subjective like "effective opposition to the Tories" or "promote peace and human rights" . 

FWIW, Starmer was a top-notch human rights barrister, so I would trust him on that one unless there is compelling evidence in the other direction. 

[Spockydog]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I'm not defending Starmer exactly, but has he broken all 10? The graphic has a giant red cross but no explanation and some of these are quite subjective like "effective opposition to the Tories" or "promote peace and human rights" . 

FWIW, Starmer was a top-notch human rights barrister, so I would trust him on that one unless there is compelling evidence in the other direction. 

Pretty much. 

Effective Opposition To The Tories. I honestly don't know anyone who thinks he's been an effective LotO. Do you? His gradually shrinking poll lead is as much about the Tories as it is his 'leadership' skills. 

Promote peace and human rights. Unless it's for the Palestinians. 

As for the rest, he's pretty much u-turned on everything. People change their minds. That's fine. But not when you're a newly elected political leader, and the things you changed your mind on are the things that got you the job in the first place.

And he doesn't own the fucking Labour Party. So all his 'my way or the highway' bullshit sticks in the throat somewhat.

 

Edited February 23 by Spockydog

[Gaston de Foix]

27 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Pretty much. 

Effective Opposition To The Tories. I honestly don't know anyone who thinks he's been an effective LotO. Do you? His gradually shrinking poll lead is as much about the Tories as it is his 'leadership' skills. 

My wife voted for BoJo in Dec. 2019 (mostly against Corbyn).  She said after watching Starmer's take-down of Boris at PMQs over partygate she would vote for him:

That's not the entirety of the job, and for sure he comes across as a clever London lawyer rather than a man of the people.  But he has seen off two PMs.  When you watch PMQs, you can see the fear in Sunak's eyes.  Sunak rarely provides a direct answer to his questions instead responding with political attacks on related topics. 

Look Starmer has a long way to go as LOTO let alone potential PM.  He seems to have a bit of a glass jaw/can't take attacks as well as he can dish them out.  But colour me sceptical there is a better alternative in the Labour party today.  And he's a much more principled and credible politician than Johnson and Truss. 

Edited February 23 by Gaston de Foix

[Spockydog]

 

 

[Which Tyler]

50 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

Cunning plan?

[Derfel Cadarn]

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Nobody in the entirety of the UK can lay a glove on Therese Coffey when it comes to tips on a healthy diet.

[ants]

6 hours ago, mormont said:

I think the point is more that there really aren't any circumstances under which the opposition can be seen to not want an immediate election. Saying you're not ready for government is electoral madness. So if a PM resigns, the opposition have to call for an election.

That, plus it's always a good attack to say the current government doesn't have a mandate. 

[Maltaran]

4 hours ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Cunning plan?

Only if f the turnips are shaped like a thingy