Astaporian Gaffe

[kissdbyfire]

“Season 1”? 

[Angel Eyes]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

“Season 1”? 

On the other hand in the books Ned's distaste for the Sack of King's Landing isn't widely known considering that Daenerys lumps him in with the Usurper's Dogs and brushes off Barristan's admonition that Ned protested against the attempt on her life.

Quote

The sack of King’s Landing by the ones Viserys called the Usurper’s dogs, the lords Lannister and Stark.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Angel Eyes

[SeanF]

11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

On the other hand in the books Ned's distaste for the Sack of King's Landing isn't widely known considering that Daenerys lumps him in with the Usurper's Dogs and brushes off Barristan's admonition that Ned protested against the attempt on her life.

 

Ned apart, I think the general view among the rebel leaders was that Tywin did them all a big favour.

[John Suburbs]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:57 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So take me through the mind of Kraznys mo Nakhloz. You're arranging for an army of 8,000 Unsullied to be traded for a dragon (which in the real world would be the equivalent of an artillery piece or two with a few crates worth of rifles, with the soldiers knowing how to use them). Why would you give someone the means of taking back what you just gave away, when they're still close enough to do so?

Greed

[astarkchoice]

So they.meet someome with a dragon for sale...immeasurably precious , an item able to restart the ghiscari empire basicaly ! She seems.weak and skiddish ans has a limited entourage..not much of a threat.

Shes wanting to take on the powerful kingdom of westeros whos king wants her dead and has already tried assasination before , shel need far more than your full stock! 

She is basicaly taking a weapon to defend herself from the powerful enemies shes made among the dothraki,quarth and iron throne..then turns it on astopor thus adding all of slavers bay to the 'kill dany' fan club. Shes also broken her word thus even.sellswords.have got to ask themselves can they trust her

Its like being chased for you life by triads and setting up a gun purcahse with the russian mafia to help you.....then shooing the made guy they send ! so  now they are after your head to!

When you reflect on it..if it was anyone else.......where the hell would they go next? ok got 8.5k unsullied...you are surrounded by far larger hostile forces !and in a world with actual magic assasins mixed.in with the ordinary ones

[frenin]

On 4/30/2023 at 6:15 PM, astarkchoice said:

Its still a contract broken in good faith , good luck getting anyone trusting you agai 

Plenty of people trust and are willing to make contracts with Dany tho.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Plenty of people trust and are willing to make contracts with Dany tho.

Yunkai stabs her right in the back as soon as she marches on, the meerense remain faithless liars  right to her face..again why honour a surrender with an oathbreaker?

Poor griff comes to form  an allaince and he gets cooked alive.

Hell the dragons are the only reason people still seek allainces with her..from a cold blooded neutral stance her word is worth less than the freys at this point! For the slavers astopor is their red wedding!!!!

[frenin]

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

Yunkai stabs her right in the back as soon as she marches on, the meerense remain faithless liars  right to her face..again why honour a surrender with an oathbreaker?

None of that is because she's an oathbreaker.

You're mixing apless and oranges.

 

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

Poor griff comes to form  an allaince and he gets cooked alive.

1. He was refused.
2. He was invited to leave.
3. He chose to steal a dragon instead when Dany was awol.

Why is Dany's fault again.

 

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

Hell the dragons are the only reason people still seek allainces with her..from a cold blooded neutral stance her word is worth less than the freys at this point! For the slavers astopor is their red wedding!!!!

The Tyrell's gigantic army and wealth is the only reason why people still seek alliances with them... Duh.

They still seek alliances with Dany and believe she'd keep her word.

From a cold blooded neutral stance, anyone who isn't a slaver would care at all she turned back on the Astapori.

If Barristan doesn't care...

[astarkchoice]

39 minutes ago, frenin said:

-None of that is because she's an oathbreaker.

You're mixing apless and oranges.

 

1. -He was refused.
2. He was invited to leave.
3. He chose to steal a dragon instead when Dany was awol.

Why is Dany's fault again.

 

-The Tyrell's gigantic army and wealth is the only reason why people still seek alliances with them... Duh.

They still seek alliances with Dany and believe she'd keep her word.

From a cold blooded neutral stance, anyone who isn't a slaver would care at all she turned back on the Astapori.

If Barristan doesn't care...

-its cant have helped  her rep that shes known to break  contracts though  no? Esp in that part of the world

-point was thats all the dornish will initaly hear,ie he  went for alliance and was mocked publicly then was burnt to heap onto previous contract breaking

-the freys also were arguably the strongest house on the riverlands and now stronger still , people will possibly ally with them but always witg the red wedding at the back of their minds....same with dany and astopor.

[frenin]

22 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

-its cant have helped  her rep that shes known to break  contracts though  no? Esp in that part of the world

Or because she's trying to free slaves and most people in that surrounding area are really not okay with that.

 

24 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

-point was thats all the dornish will initaly hear,ie he  went for alliance and was mocked publicly then was burnt to heap onto previous contract breaking

Why would the Dornish, one of the most egaletarian societies in planetos, care that much about her turning on slavers?

 

24 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

-the freys also were arguably the strongest house on the riverlands and now stronger still , people will possibly ally with them but always witg the red wedding at the back of their minds....same with dany and astopor.

The Freys are absolutely despised by absolutely anyone not named Frey and are actually called out for being untrustworthy oathbreakers.

None of that applies to Dany.

No one in Westeros cares that she broke her word with a slaver, no one has hinted so, Barristan was there and has never called her out for it. Strangely enough some people of the fanbase can't stop about it for some weird reason.

 

[astarkchoice]

39 minutes ago, frenin said:

-Or because she's trying to free slaves and most people in that surrounding area are really not okay with that.

 

-Why would the Dornish, one of the most egaletarian societies in planetos, care that much about her turning on slavers?

 

-The Freys are absolutely despised by absolutely anyone not named Frey and are actually called out for being untrustworthy oathbreakers.

None of that applies to Dany.

No one in Westeros cares that she broke her word with a slaver, no one has hinted so, Barristan was there and has never called her out for it. Strangely enough some people of the fanbase can't stop about it for some weird reason.

 

-theres that too

-id say the griff rumours clmming down chinese whisper style will prob count for much more but for anyone unsure of her its one more ?

-the point being if the worldbuilding was more consistant it should count for a lot more....the fact that slavers are scum.doesnt matter its the fact a contract /oath/word was given then betrayed.

Im a fan of danys story as felt essos is far more exciting than just westeros all the time .

[frenin]

21 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-id say the griff rumours clmming down chinese whisper style will prob count for much more but for anyone unsure of her its one more ?

Eh, those who stand to gain or believe she will just steamroll everyone still will jump ship.

21 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-the point being if the worldbuilding was more consistant it should count for a lot more....the fact that slavers are scum.doesnt matter its the fact a contract /oath/word was given then betrayed.

I don't think it is a worldbuilding thing the fact that people don't actually care she betrayed slavers. 

If someone breaks their word to the Freys reviled as they are now, it will probably get shrugged too.

The fact that slavers are scum does matter, it is bizarre to pretend otherwise.

[Alester Florent]

55 minutes ago, frenin said:

I don't think it is a worldbuilding thing the fact that people don't actually care she betrayed slavers. 

If someone breaks their word to the Freys reviled as they are now, it will probably get shrugged too.

The fact that slavers are scum does matter, it is bizarre to pretend otherwise.

I think even more than that, it's that people don't know that she betrayed slavers. News from Slaver's Bay is sporadic and incomplete so by the time it reaches Westeros it's going to be distorted, out of date, and probably not spread that far. Even Varys probably doesn't know exactly what went down, because his informant has defected so he's having to pick up the same rumours as everyone else. For most people, a princess on the far side of the world with dragons roasting foreigners might as well be a fairy tale, if they hear about it at all. We know that Dany wants to come home but does almost anyone in Westeros believe that or care?

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

I think even more than that, it's that people don't know that she betrayed slavers. News from Slaver's Bay is sporadic and incomplete so by the time it reaches Westeros it's going to be distorted, out of date, and probably not spread that far. Even Varys probably doesn't know exactly what went down, because his informant has defected so he's having to pick up the same rumours as everyone else. For most people, a princess on the far side of the world with dragons roasting foreigners might as well be a fairy tale, if they hear about it at all. We know that Dany wants to come home but does almost anyone in Westeros believe that or care?

There's that too but Barristan was with her when she sacked Astapor and he doesn't once think  she actd unfairly by turning on Kraznys.

[GZ Bloodraven]

On 2/21/2023 at 3:57 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So take me through the mind of Kraznys mo Nakhloz. You're arranging for an army of 8,000 Unsullied to be traded for a dragon (which in the real world would be the equivalent of an artillery piece or two with a few crates worth of rifles, with the soldiers knowing how to use them). Why would you give someone the means of taking back what you just gave away, when they're still close enough to do so?

I think he thought they were better trained, that they were loyal to him beyond his command of them. A narcissism component.

[astarkchoice]

6 hours ago, frenin said:

Eh, those who stand to gain or believe she will just steamroll everyone still will jump ship.

I don't think it is a worldbuilding thing the fact that people don't actually care she betrayed slavers. 

If someone breaks their word to the Freys reviled as they are now, it will probably get shrugged too.

The fact that slavers are scum does matter, it is bizarre to pretend otherwise.

Hmm id say the other reason someone else pointed out that no word will have gotten out  that she did break her word

[frenin]

41 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Hmm id say the other reason someone else pointed out that no word will have gotten out  that she did break her word

Again, Barristan the honor man by excellence does not see anything bad with her behaviour.

It's unlikely anyone will see anything bad with her behaviour, it's a bizarre wishful thinking that she's view negatively for double crossing the Astapori.

[astarkchoice]

Just now, frenin said:

Again, Barristan the honor man by excellence does not see anything bad with her behaviour.

It's unlikely anyone will see anything bad with her behaviour, it's a bizarre wishful thinking that she's view negatively for double crossing the Astapori.

He picks and chooses what to honour

Its still breaking her word.doesnr mater how scuummy the other side is

[frenin]

1 minute ago, astarkchoice said:

He picks and chooses what to honour

So does anyone.

1 minute ago, astarkchoice said:

Its still breaking her word.doesnr mater how scuummy the other side is

It is, do not expect most rational people to care.

[astarkchoice]

8 hours ago, frenin said:

So does anyone.

It is, do not expect most rational people to care.

Thats not how being a man/woman of your word works. If you pick and choose who you are honest/trustworthy with then by definition you are not trustworthy.

Think ned..for all his flaws he would have stuck to his word with a scumbag like the slavers (or indeed as he would with cersei or lf bad they not crossed him)