frenin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 51 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Thats not how being a man/woman of your word works. If you pick and choose who you are honest/trustworthy with then by definition you are not trustworthy. It very much is. If you're a honest/trustworthy person but double cross once a dishonest/untrustworthy/scum of the earth person. People are not going to believe you're not trustworthy. That's again bizarre. 51 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Think ned..for all his flaws he would have stuck to his word with a scumbag like the slavers (or indeed as he would with cersei or lf bad they not crossed him) Doubtful. Cersei is not an slaver anyway and he stuck by that because of the kids. And Ned's the definition of picking and choosing his honor, just like Barri. Who again, doesn't care. Won't say Jorah because he's just scum. Edited May 4 by frenin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 11 minutes ago, frenin said: It very much is. If you're a honest/trustworthy person but double cross once a dishonest/untrustworthy/scum of the earth person. People are not going to believe you're not trustworthy. That's again bizarre. Doubtful. Cersei is not an slaver anyway and he stuck by that because of the kids. And Ned's the definition of picking and choosing his honor, just like Barri. Who again, doesn't care. Won't say Jorah because he's just scum. Yes they are ..you are either true to your word or you arent ...theres no grey area there! It has to be the lowest scumbag to the holiest septon can both trust you equaly or you arent really trustworthy....if you pick and choose who you are trusthworthy with then by literal definition you arent trustworthy! In the words of a modern poet "All i have in this world is my word and my balls and i dont break em for no one" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 16 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Yes they are ..you are either true to your word or you arent ...theres no grey area there! It has to be the lowest scumbag to the holiest septon can both trust you equaly or you arent really trustworthy....if you pick and choose who you are trusthworthy with then by literal definition you arent trustworthy! In the words of a modern poet "All i have in this world is my word and my balls and i dont break em for no one" Good thing people in the series don't think like you. Even tho you bizarrely want them to distrust her for betraying a slaver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 25 minutes ago, frenin said: Good thing people in the series don't think like you. Even tho you bizarrely want them to distrust her for betraying a slaver. We dont know they dont distrust her, some.want.what she has doesnt mean they think shes solid as a rock trust wise!!! Its like making a deal with ned or stannis vs one with cersei or walder frey! Its not a huge issue just a factor in her dec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 hour ago, astarkchoice said: We dont know they dont distrust her, some.want.what she has doesnt mean they think shes solid as a rock trust wise!!! Its like making a deal with ned or stannis vs one with cersei or walder frey! Its not a huge issue just a factor in her dec You're the one wanting to believe they distrust her. The onus is on you to prove it. So far you only have said that you want them to mistrust her because she turned on Kraznys. People who make deals with Walder Frey or Cersei make it plain they don't trust her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, frenin said: You're the one wanting to believe they distrust her. The onus is on you to prove it. So far you only have said that you want them to mistrust her because she turned on Kraznys. People who make deals with Walder Frey or Cersei make it plain they don't trust her. No it woukd be consistant with the setting if they mistrusted her more given shes a proven dealbreaker In terms of the threads entire point her breaking a deal.puts a mark on her name forever that would affect her future thus is one more reason the astopor slavers shouldnt expect her sudden random seemingly suicidal change of purpouse!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) I think people of Westeros probably won’t care, but most of Essos practices slavery, and to them the slavers will likely still be ~ scum, but normal ordinary everyday scum. She represents something worse/better/more dangerous, and especially to the ruling classes of Essos Astapor probably does fit somewhere between the Red Wedding and something like the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre. ie, to them her act will sound less like emancipation, more like a drug deal gone wrong/fallout among thieves. Obviously over time many will realize she has a different agenda altogether, but until that really develops, the Essos version of what went down in Atapor will not so much distinguish her from the slave trade as identify her as being involved in it, being a ~ slaver herself of some kind, just one who was willing to play dirty to eliminate some competition. That would be the most logical explanation for what happened through a worldview where the slave trade is just another trade, albeit one of dubious moral/aesthetic value. Think arms dealers or lobbyists or mercy or someone else in modern life who engages in a legal, lucrative but morally dubious trade. I think that’s the most likely context for an Essosi (aside from all the slaves, obv. though as her intent becomes clear it’s likely slaves will be told terrifying stories of how she treats ‘feed’ slaves in much the way the Americans did about the British during the Revolution. There is a slave news network, but it’s often very slow and, yeah, broken telephone.) Edited May 4 by James Arryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Assuming that Volantis revolts, none of the liberated slaves or tiger soldiers, or red clergy are going to care that Daenerys broke her contract with the Good Masters of Astapor. After all, they will have just spectacularly violated their bonds of fealty to their masters. None of the freedmen in Slavers Bay are bothered about her breach of contract with the Good Masters, and nor would anyone in Westeros who heard about it. It's possible that Ned or Stannis would have considered it more honourable to descend on Astapor with an army, and to put the slavers to the sword, but they would not condemn her for using the only tactic at her disposal to achieve a just end. I don't doubt that Jon Snow would have done exactly the same as Daenerys, in her shoes. That leaves the slaver elites in Essos, who do see it as a dreadful piece of double-dealing, but their problem with Daenerys is more existential. She's emboldened millions of slaves, who have learned that they might be freed. Morte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 hours ago, astarkchoice said: No it woukd be consistant with the setting if they mistrusted her more given shes a proven dealbreaker It won't be consistent with any setting that they would mistrust her, Jorah and Barristan are Westerosi nd they don't think that. You're the one wanting to believe that way given that no one has brought up the betrayal again. You keep making the comparison with Walder Frey without illing to accept that anyone that is forced to make deals with him do so fully knowing and stating they consider him among the lowest filth of the earth. No such thing has happened with Dany nor will it happen. 6 hours ago, astarkchoice said: In terms of the threads entire point her breaking a deal.puts a mark on her name forever that would affect her future At this point it does feel like you want it to happen despite no evidence if it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 hours ago, frenin said: It won't be consistent with any setting that they would mistrust her, Jorah and Barristan are Westerosi nd they don't think that. You're the one wanting to believe that way given that no one has brought up the betrayal again. You keep making the comparison with Walder Frey without illing to accept that anyone that is forced to make deals with him do so fully knowing and stating they consider him among the lowest filth of the earth. No such thing has happened with Dany nor will it happen. At this point it does feel like you want it to happen despite no evidence if it. Jorah and barristan see what they wanna see, jorah is in love and barristan desperately wants dany to be the one good monarch he serves before he dies Yes no one mentions it again..its not in fititng with the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassDarry Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 On 5/4/2023 at 9:55 AM, astarkchoice said: All i have in this world is my word and my balls and i dont break em for no one I don't want to derail the thread but what does breaking my balls mean? ....obviously I don't want to Google it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 10 minutes ago, CassDarry said: I don't want to derail the thread but what does breaking my balls mean? ....obviously I don't want to Google it That’s a quote from the film Scarface, I think. I always understood breaking balls as taking the piss. CassDarry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 15 hours ago, CassDarry said: I don't want to derail the thread but what does breaking my balls mean? ....obviously I don't want to Google it Its from scarface man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 On 5/5/2023 at 1:14 AM, astarkchoice said: Jorah and barristan see what they wanna see, jorah is in love and barristan desperately wants dany to be the one good monarch he serves before he dies Everyone sees what they want to see, so do we. Barristan isn't shy to show his displeasure towards Dany, Jorah voices complaints quite a lot. Yet... On 5/5/2023 at 1:14 AM, astarkchoice said: Yes no one mentions it again..its not in fititng with the setting. It is, if they don't care what happens to slavers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 35 minutes ago, frenin said: Everyone sees what they want to see, so do we. Barristan isn't shy to show his displeasure towards Dany, Jorah voices complaints quite a lot. Yet... It is, if they don't care what happens to slavers. Slavers, swllswords.or other mercs.ot even.other lords a broken contract is stilla broken contract snd people would know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 I doubt if Aegon’s chances of winning would be adversely affected by the Golden Company’s breach of contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Just now, SeanF said: I doubt if Aegon’s chances of winning would be adversely affected by the Golden Company’s breach of contract. Yes, because the Company is breaking the contract, not him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 On 5/6/2023 at 2:42 PM, astarkchoice said: Slavers, swllswords.or other mercs.ot even.other lords a broken contract is stilla broken contract snd people would know Do you truly believe someone in Westeros would care if a lord/commoner double cross the Freys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 42 minutes ago, frenin said: Do you truly believe someone in Westeros would care if a lord/commoner double cross the Freys? If they gave their word yes.....if you break your word then no you arent trustworthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 32 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: If they gave their word yes.....if you break your word then no you arent trustworthy Then you're paying more attention to the rules than Westerosi. Lots of fans do. Even tho Westerosi mostly prove time and time again than most rules and laws are guidelines. No one cares about backstabbing the backstabber, or should I say, only a meaningless minority care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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