King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I’d have to give it to Aegon IV. While Aerys II was awful and just a malicious human being, he was clearly mentally ill. So while I can rightfully criticize everything he did, it does add a small amount of nuance to him. Whereas Aegon IV was just a complete and utter asshole. He wasn’t mad in the slightest, just vindictive, cruel, lecherous, and spiteful. And how could anyone forget how gluttonous and greedy he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Fully agreed. I don't believe any other king comes close to how unworthy Aegon IV was, hence a fitting title. Furthermore, it was a petty, mundane, and fundamentally selfish sort of evil that reflected on him that much more poorly. On his deathbed, he singlehandedly caused five generations of Blackfyre Rebellions that troubled the realm with endless war and strife. Setting aside insanity and the fact that Aerys II in particular needed to go, Maegor I was the only other king who was in the same realm of evil as Aegon IV. He was thoroughly monstrous, but he was also responsible for stabilizing the dynasty by brutally ending any threat to Targaryen rule and to Westerosi (sans Dorne) unification, and by squashing the Faith Militant. I strongly disagree with those who say that Jaehaerys I was not a good king and only benefitted from his predecessor, but it is true that Maegor in large part enabled his peaceful and prosperous reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Well, our buddy Maegor the Cruel was a pretty nasty piece of work, sort of setting the standard for Targaryen madness, cruelty and ick factor. At least in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 33 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: Well, our buddy Maegor the Cruel was a pretty nasty piece of work, sort of setting the standard for Targaryen madness, cruelty and ick factor. At least in my book. I don’t think Maegor was mad at all. Just utterly ruthless. His ruthlessness is what made Jaehaerys & Alysanne’s easier. He brought stability to the new dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: I don’t think Maegor was mad at all. Just utterly ruthless. His ruthlessness is what made Jaehaerys & Alysanne’s easier. He brought stability to the new dynasty. Tell that to oh maybe the wives and Faith and nieces and nephews, maybe his brother, good sister...just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I don’t know what’s worse: a king who is wilfully bad, or a king who’s so incompetent that the realm falls apart and leads to worse. On the one hand, you have Maegor, a ruthless and bloodthirsty usurper whose rule was marked with war from start to finish. But he wouldn’t have been able to usurp his dad. It was Aenys that he usurped: Aenys, who was an indecisive and frail king, who gave Blackfyre to his brother, and who was clearly not meant to be king. So who was worse? The obvious psychopath or the weakling who paved the way for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 16 hours ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: I’d have to give it to Aegon IV. While Aerys II was awful and just a malicious human being, he was clearly mentally ill. So while I can rightfully criticize everything he did, it does add a small amount of nuance to him. Whereas Aegon IV was just a complete and utter asshole. He wasn’t mad in the slightest, just vindictive, cruel, lecherous, and spiteful. And how could anyone forget how gluttonous and greedy he was. While I would agree that Aegon IV is the worst king, with Aerys or Maegor following closely behind, there are all sorts of mental illnesses Aegon IV could have. BPD and NPD definitely stand out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 16 hours ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: Whereas Aegon IV was just a complete and utter asshole. He wasn’t mad in the slightest, just vindictive, cruel, lecherous, and spiteful. And how could anyone forget how gluttonous and greedy he was. Honestly while all of this is true. It tells us little about his actual policies. It seems that he largely ignored the Great Lords and their regions and only messed with the petty Lords who were dumb enough to court him. I don't really think an Stark or a Lannisters had really much to complain against Aegon IV. Nor the commons. So gotta hand it to Aegon II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 They were all amazing and perfect and wonderful because they’re gods ruling over lesser creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: They were all amazing and perfect and wonderful because they’re gods ruling over lesser creatures. Anything and everything they did was justified. They had to carry the burden of the prophecy and it made their rule sad and lonely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Aerys II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said: Anything and everything they did was justified. Annoyingly people are actually using this idea of a prophecy, which might not even be in the books, to justify the Targaryen atrocities. For example I read someone claim that what Aegon did in Dorne was justified because he just 'had' to unify Westeros. Another person said that what Aerys was doing was justified... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Annoyingly people are actually using this idea of a prophecy, which might not even be in the books, to justify the Targaryen atrocities. For example I read someone claim that what Aegon did in Dorne was justified because he just 'had' to unify Westeros. Another person said that what Aerys was doing was justified... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: While I would agree that Aegon IV is the worst king, with Aerys or Maegor following closely behind, there are all sorts of mental illnesses Aegon IV could have. BPD and NPD definitely stand out I’d actually give Maegor a bit more slack. He wasn’t great by any means, but destroying the Faith Militant was a very good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 As awful as Aegon IV was, he did at least manage not to get overthrown and bring down the entire dynasty. This is an extremely low bar, but if we set that as the absolute minimum expectation for a king, then he just about crawls over it, whereas Aerys II fails. For that reason I have to give the wooden spoon to Aerys. Not that Aegon falls short for want of trying. Aerys's reign was a fairly steady decline and had he died at Duskendale he would probably be remembered much more positively than he is. If Aegon had died two weeks into his reign it still couldn't have come soon enough. Among other contenders, Aegon II was also an awful king and Aenys was absolute crap too. But while they run Aerys's accomplishment close, you feel like they were both at least trying to be half-decent kings at least most of the time; they were just rubbish at it. Aegon IV seems to have committed himself to being the worst king - and person = possible. So the bottom four in descending order of quality, for me: Aenys I Aegon II Aegon IV Aerys II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said: Annoyingly people are actually using this idea of a prophecy, which might not even be in the books, to justify the Targaryen atrocities. For example I read someone claim that what Aegon did in Dorne was justified because he just 'had' to unify Westeros. Another person said that what Aerys was doing was justified... I've seen multiple tumblr users say that the "Targaryens didn't want to rule Westeros but they had to because of the prophecy and the people just didn't understand". Like, let's stop romanticizing now. And as for Aerys..they place all the blame on Brandon Stark. "If Brandon had just stayed in Riverrun Westeros wouldn't have been at war! He's such an idiot!! He ruined Rhaegar's plans! Rhaegar was going to fix everything!! Stupid Brandon! Aerys had no choice but to kill him!!" On a side note, if my father and brothers thought I had been kidnapped they'd raise hell too. And if they didn't I'd disown them lol. That's my toxic trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Daenerys Targaryen. No Targaryen ruler ever racked a kill count such as she and she is still kicking or rather, killing. Perhaps Maegor could come close with the Faith Militant etc. but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 For all his faults the crown survived Aegon IV but it didn't survive Aerys II. Aerys II was the worst and the only outright failure since Maegor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Aegon II was bad but so was Rhaenyra. Both only ruled during a period of great civil war. If we can’t call Rhaenyra a terrible monarch by the same logic we can’t call Aegon II a bad one. Neither got the chance to rule during a time of relative peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: Aegon II was bad but so was Rhaenyra. Both only ruled during a period of great civil war. If we can’t call Rhaenyra a terrible monarch by the same logic we can’t call Aegon II a bad one. Neither got the chance to rule during a time of relative peace. Targaryens during their civil wars: is it me? am i the drama? i don't think i'm the drama... maybe i am! *gasp* am i the villain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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