Bowen Marsh, Traitor of Humanity

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

It seems clear to me that the pudgy fuck is working for the Others. Why else would he murder his Lord Commander, who was doing everything he could to prepare for them? He was totally against the Wildlings crossing the Wall because he wants them to fill the armies of the Undead. He also knows that if the Wildlings and Night’s Watch are destroyed, then the Others will have a much easier time crossing the Wall. I believe he found out about Crastor’s sacrifices and believes in doing all this, the Orhers will turn him into an Other. Bowen Marsh is a traitor to mankind.

[Damsel in Distress]

Bowen Marsh, defender of humanity.  He wanted to protect the wall from Jon's mistakes.  Jon put them all in danger. 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

2 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Bowen Marsh, defender of humanity.  He wanted to protect the wall from Jon's mistakes.  Jon put them all in danger. 

[LongRider]

11 hours ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said:

It seems clear to me that the pudgy fuck is working for the Others. Why else would he murder his Lord Commander, who was doing everything he could to prepare for them? He was totally against the Wildlings crossing the Wall because he wants them to fill the armies of the Undead. He also knows that if the Wildlings and Night’s Watch are destroyed, then the Others will have a much easier time crossing the Wall. I believe he found out about Crastor’s sacrifices and believes in doing all this, the Orhers will turn him into an Other. Bowen Marsh is a traitor to mankind.

    
 

Well said!

[Angel Eyes]

10 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Bowen Marsh, defender of humanity.  He wanted to protect the wall from Jon's mistakes.  Jon put them all in danger. 

So... you'd prefer being killed and turned into a zombie?

[Saint Saga]

Bowen is a traitor,not Jon.The Watch true porpuse is to defend the realm of men,all the story that they could not take sides in the affairs of the seven kingdoms is a late adition. 

"I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men."

That is the original vow according to the black gate.

[kissdbyfire]

11 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Bowen Marsh, defender of humanity.  He wanted to protect the wall from Jon's mistakes.  Jon put them all in danger. 

“It was the same again with Hardhome. Satin poured whilst Jon told them of his audience with the queen. Marsh listened attentively, ignoring the mulled wine, whilst Yarwyck drank one cup and then another. But no sooner had Jon finished than the Lord Steward said, “Her Grace is wise. Let them die.”

  Jon sat back. “Is that the only counsel you can offer, my lord? Tormund is bringing eighty men. How many should we send? Shall we call upon the giants? The spearwives at Long Barrow? If we have women with us, it may put Mother Mole’s people at ease.”

  “Send women, then. Send giants. Send suckling babes. Is that what my lord wishes to hear?” Bowen Marsh rubbed at the scar he had won at the Bridge of Skulls. “Send them all. The more we lose, the fewer mouths we’ll have to feed.”

  Yarwyck was no more helpful. “If the wildlings at Hardhome need saving, let the wildlings here go save them. Tormund knows the way to Hardhome. To hear him talk, he can save them all himself with his huge member.”

  This was pointless, Jon thought. Pointless, fruitless, hopeless. “Thank you for your counsel, my lords.”

Doesn’t sound like much of a defender of humanity to me… 

But what do I know compared to your infinite wisdom, exquisite reading comprehension, and deep understanding of the story being told?

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

But what do I know compared to your infinite wisdom, exquisite reading comprehension, and deep understanding of the story being told?

The problem is, as I see it, Bowen 'Crotch Itch' Marsh wanted to be the hero!  But he was just an itchy coward.  

[sifth]

The guy is an idiot and for the life of him, can not see the big picture, if it was staring him in the face. The Others are the real treat and all other foes are meaningless, when compared to them. 

[Craving Peaches]

Guys, I don't think we are getting the message here:

Jon Snow is the Antichrist!!!

But don't worry, I'm sure many people will be along to remind us soon enough...

[Craving Peaches]

Seriously though Bowen was stupid, stupid, stupid! He threw his life away because he was just that intolerant that he'd rather see all of humanity die then let people who were different to him pass the Wall. He prioritises his pettiness and bigotry over the survival of mankind as a whole.

I feel like this needs to be put into a different context to really drive home how ridiculous it is. I will use my home as an example. Imagine, if you will, that the Others are invading Britain (for the sake of argument we don't have any effective weapons). They have already killed everyone in the Highlands. The surviving people of the Central Belt and Northern England wish to flee beyond Hadrian's Wall to take shelter. The Home Secretary is refusing because he can't tolerate that they aren't from London or the Home Counties. He would rather see them all killed even though it would give a massive boost to the enemy.

Or we can do a historical example for better context. The Others are invading the Kingdom of Scotland. They have killed everyone in the Highlands, Islands and Aberdeen who did not flee south. The people of Edinburgh wish to flee to England beyond Hadrian's Wall to take shelter, but one of the English King's Advisors wants to see them all die because they are Scottish and there have been a few raids in the borders, even though it would just give a huge boost to the enemy.

Another historical context example. Refugees from the Highlands want to go beyond Hadrian's Wall to take shelter from the Others in the Kingdoms of Wessex, Mercia and so on. The King of Northumbria is debating whether to let them through. One of his advisors is completely opposed to it just because they are Gaelic, even though it would provide the Others with thousands of fresh troops, whom they would have to fight later.

Bowen is also endangering the group of people he does tolerate anyway through his idiocy. It is one thing to be a bigot, quite another to be such a bigot that you would jeopardise the survival of the entire human species just because you didn't want to see some foreigners settle in another land.

Nature doesn't select for that kind of idiocy though so Bowen will die in short order without being able to pass it on.

[Corvo the Crow]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Seriously though Bowen was stupid, stupid, stupid! He threw his life away because he was just that intolerant that he'd rather see all of humanity die then let people who were different to him pass the Wall. He prioritises his pettiness and bigotry over the survival of mankind as a whole.

I feel like this needs to be put into a different context to really drive home how ridiculous it is. I will use my home as an example. Imagine, if you will, that the Others are invading Britain (for the sake of argument we don't have any effective weapons). They have already killed everyone in the Highlands. The surviving people of the Central Belt and Northern England wish to flee beyond Hadrian's Wall to take shelter. The Home Secretary is refusing because he can't tolerate that they aren't from London or the Home Counties. He would rather see them all killed even though it would give a massive boost to the enemy.

Or we can do a historical example for better context. The Others are invading the Kingdom of Scotland. They have killed everyone in the Highlands, Islands and Aberdeen who did not flee south. The people of Edinburgh wish to flee to England beyond Hadrian's Wall to take shelter, but one of the English King's Advisors wants to see them all die because they are Scottish and there have been a few raids in the borders, even though it would just give a huge boost to the enemy.

Another historical context example. Refugees from the Highlands want to go beyond Hadrian's Wall to take shelter from the Others in the Kingdoms of Wessex, Mercia and so on. The King of Northumbria is debating whether to let them through. One of his advisors is completely opposed to it just because they are Gaelic, even though it would provide the Others with thousands of fresh troops, whom they would have to fight later.

Bowen is also endangering the group of people he does tolerate anyway through his idiocy. It is one thing to be a bigot, quite another to be such a bigot that you would jeopardise the survival of the entire human species just because you didn't want to see some foreigners settle in another land.

Nature doesn't select for that kind of idiocy though so Bowen will die in short order without being able to pass it on.

It's not meant to be funny but damn I burst into laughter on the extent of Bowen's stupidity.

[Alester Florent]

It's been sufficiently long now since I last read ADwD that I can't recall all the details, but I get the impression that, by the time of Jon Snow's election, there is a divide between those I might call the "Old Watch" and the "New Watch". The Old Watch have served for years, if not decades, or follow those who have, and haven't adjusted to the radical shift in focus the Watch requires as a result of recent events. The New Watch comprise Jon's contemporaries, the survivors of the Fist of the First Men, and those who served in the defence of Castle Black under Jon. They have first-hand experience that has caused them to reconsider what the real threat is, and adjust priorities accordingly, and/or they have enough trust in Jon's leadership to accept his word that that's what needs to happen.

Length of service doesn't necessarily map to one or the other, as some of the new conscripts (like Slynt) are Old Watch in their outlook, while some very experienced ones adapt to New Watch thinking. There are some who maybe don't fall neatly into either camp: Mallister and Pike are probably Old Watch at heart but prepared to give the New Watch a go to see if it works.

Anyway, Bowen is Old Watch to the core. He has spent his career worrying about petty nonsense, internal (and external) politics, bean-counting, and viewing the wildlings as mortal enemies. Then suddenly all of that is upended, and Jon initiates a complete revolution in the way the Watch does things. Bowen also wasn't on the Great Ranging, so he hasn't encountered the Others. The wights might have creeped him out but he hasn't had that shock to force him to recalibrate his thinking.

I do think Bowen genuinely means well and cares about the Watch. He even seems to have been a moderately competent battlefield commander despite not being a ranger. He's just so set in his ways that he completely misses the point that what the Watch is really for - and what it needs to be - is not what he was familiar with, and he can't cope with that. Whether this is stupidity, intellectual laziness, or just institutionalisation, I don't know.