Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I feel like that would seriously undermine him as a character. The big appeal is that he is the most ordinary of men, apart from his size. He should have lived and died in the gutters of Flea Bottom, but instead he rose up to be the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Having him be a secret royal would undercut his interactions with every Targ we’ve yet seen. It’s a big moment when he dares tell Maekar that his eldest sons are spoiled brats and that Egg needs to experience life beyond his little ecosystem. It’s the common man calling out the monarchy and triumphing. That’s one of my favourite moments in GRRM’s ouevre, and having him be a secret Targ would take away all the sweetness from the moment. It’s like how A Knight’s Tale completely undermined its own message by having the MC be revealed as royalty in the 9th hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, Floki of the Ironborn said: I feel like that would seriously undermine him as a character. The big appeal is that he is the most ordinary of men, apart from his size. He should have lived and died in the gutters of Flea Bottom, but instead he rose up to be the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Having him be a secret royal would undercut his interactions with every Targ we’ve yet seen. It’s a big moment when he dares tell Maekar that his eldest sons are spoiled brats and that Egg needs to experience life beyond his little ecosystem. It’s the common man calling out the monarchy and triumphing. That’s one of my favourite moments in GRRM’s ouevre, and having him be a secret Targ would take away all the sweetness from the moment. It’s like how A Knight’s Tale completely undermined its own message by having the MC be revealed as royalty in the 9th hour. The whole secret Prince is a good story, a bit cliche but it can be very interesting all the same. A classic. But I agree, Duncan just being a big dude from Flea Bottom is much better for his character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Agree 100%. And I don’t think there’s any hints or clues or anything, it’s just more of the secret identities/hidden Targ insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 At this rate there are so many secret Targaryens that the real secret is when someone is revealed to not be a secret Targaryen. "Wow, I can't believe you really are exactly who you say you are and appear to be. I could have sworn that everyone was wearing a disguise. Unless the real disguise is that you aren't wearing one..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Had not heard the Dunk one, but tbh I can see the thinking: Wait, no, there’s absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, James Arryn said: Had not heard the Dunk one, but tbh I can see the thinking: Wait, no, there’s absolutely nothing. I’ve seen people post about Dunk on this site, claiming that he’s secretly a Blackfyre bastard. As if that makes it poetic to have one of the best Targaryen kings ever being mentored and befriended by a son of House Targaryen’s biggest rivals. Even though Dunk was never a Blackfyre supporter and it wouldn’t change anything about his decision making even if he was one and knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skahaz mo Kandaq Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Some people. Not people in general believe that. A minority of people may believe. I don't believe it. Duncan was just a low-born boy from Flea Bottom who had the good fortune to meet Ser Arlen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: It’s like how A Knight’s Tale completely undermined its own message by having the MC be revealed as royalty in the 9th hour. i think you missed the point there. William was indeed a nobody (well, squire to a minor knight, which amounts to the same thing), but the Black Prince BSed the royal line business (including adding that to say to the contrary was treason) because he thought William was a worthy knight who had been caught out on a technicality and deserved to be treated well irrespective of his actual ancestry (and as a possibly intentional aside, allowing William to reclaim his own name rather than live under his assumed one). I guess you can view the scene however you want, but I never for a moment considered that the Black Prince was doing anything other than telling a pretty obvious lie to clear William's name, because he's the Prince of Wales and that's something he can get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 It is not that Dunk is a secret Targ. It is that Rhaegar is secretly a descendant of Dunk, via Dunk's son/grandson, Bonifer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 What? Targ? Ha! Dunk secretly has a bit of giant in him. Like Hodor. And Brienne of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: I feel like that would seriously undermine him as a character. The big appeal is that he is the most ordinary of men, apart from his size. He should have lived and died in the gutters of Flea Bottom, but instead he rose up to be the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Having him be a secret royal would undercut his interactions with every Targ we’ve yet seen. It’s a big moment when he dares tell Maekar that his eldest sons are spoiled brats and that Egg needs to experience life beyond his little ecosystem. It’s the common man calling out the monarchy and triumphing. That’s one of my favourite moments in GRRM’s ouevre, and having him be a secret Targ would take away all the sweetness from the moment. It’s like how A Knight’s Tale completely undermined its own message by having the MC be revealed as royalty in the 9th hour. Floki, I didn't know this was a thing and I'm surprised it bothers you in the least. You know they come up with stuff to bug the rest of us on purpose, Brother. Go have a shot of Shade of the Evening and give them the finger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: I’ve seen people post about Dunk on this site, claiming that he’s secretly a Blackfyre bastard. As if that makes it poetic to have one of the best Targaryen kings ever being mentored and befriended by a son of House Targaryen’s biggest rivals. Even though Dunk was never a Blackfyre supporter and it wouldn’t change anything about his decision making even if he was one and knew it. Admittedly, now that you mention it, I do want to see Dunk's reaction to being Daemon's bastard son, especially given the irony of him having thwarted no fewer than three of their rebellions. Though I do get it, it's a better story if Dunk is a nobody. It's something I actually like a lot about the Dunk & Egg stories. It's a rare time when a story is driven by someone from the smallfolk rather than the ruling class. But to be fair, you're kidding yourself if you think Dunk's story is something meaningful because he climbed up to the rank of Lord Commander. It's safe to say that Dunk is failing upward, at least so far in the Dunk & Egg stories. If he'd never bumped into Egg, he would never have made it so far in life. Everything he got in life he owed to networking, basically. It's not a grand statement about the working poor, Dunk is an exception to the rule because Aegon V managed to stumble his way onto the Iron Throne. Not that he was a bad king, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 3 hours ago, James Steller said: Admittedly, now that you mention it, I do want to see Dunk's reaction to being Daemon's bastard son, especially given the irony of him having thwarted no fewer than three of their rebellions. What could be interesting is to learn where Dunk is actually coming from. To meet his mother and whatever kin he had, and, of course, also his father, especially if he were somebody of note. I don't think he should or will be a Targaryen, of course, but if he were the son of a prince or some lord then the whole point of that would likely be to show that this has no meaning at all if the mother is some commoner and the father never even acknowledged the child. Not that this is very likely but Dunk effectively being an orphan who knows nothing about his origins is an open wound in the character, something the guy would want to explore. And I think as Dunk becomes really famous people from his past will search him out - the other urchins he grew up with (which I speculated might turn out to be the Rat, the Hawk, and the Pig), and possibly other people from Flea Bottom who remember him. I expect Dunk to be confronted with his past and origins in the first novella taking place at KL. There we are likely to get a courtly plot - with Dunk and Egg interacting with the royal family and courtiers - as well as a city plot where Dunk will visit Flea Bottom again and be confronted with his past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: What could be interesting is to learn where Dunk is actually coming from. To meet his mother and whatever kin he had, and, of course, also his father, especially if he were somebody of note. I don't think he should or will be a Targaryen, of course, but if he were the son of a prince or some lord then the whole point of that would likely be to show that this has no meaning at all if the mother is some commoner and the father never even acknowledged the child. Not that this is very likely but Dunk effectively being an orphan who knows nothing about his origins is an open wound in the character, something the guy would want to explore. And I think as Dunk becomes really famous people from his past will search him out - the other urchins he grew up with (which I speculated might turn out to be the Rat, the Hawk, and the Pig), and possibly other people from Flea Bottom who remember him. I expect Dunk to be confronted with his past and origins in the first novella taking place at KL. There we are likely to get a courtly plot - with Dunk and Egg interacting with the royal family and courtiers - as well as a city plot where Dunk will visit Flea Bottom again and be confronted with his past. There really are so many great possibilities for Dunk and Egg. If only GRRM had been able to clone himself to provide all the material which his fans crave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 On 2/23/2023 at 5:44 PM, James Steller said: Admittedly, now that you mention it, I do want to see Dunk's reaction to being Daemon's bastard son, especially given the irony of him having thwarted no fewer than three of their rebellions. I call this the Rey effect: not everybody has to be somebody. Some people can be nobody, and that can be ok, even if the twists and turns of them secretly being the kid of the badguy the whole time would be...narratively satisfying? The magic of ASOIAF is small, but the family tree is mega-big; Dunk's already Brienne's ancestor, small enough world, we don't need two Blackfyres wandering around the stormlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Thanks to Aegon IV most people living in Kings Landing and many people outside of that city has at least some royal blood in their veins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I like the notion that he's a Strong bastard, but Targ/BF makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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