Succession final season (spoilers)

[Aemon Stark]

 

Spoiler

I was not in any way expecting this. Not this early in the season. I need to rewatch and soon. Life changes in an instant. I can’t think of many shows which show the lurching dislocation of a sudden event or death. 

 

[Winterfell is Burning]

2 hours ago, Aemon Stark said:

 

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I was not in any way expecting this. Not this early in the season. I need to rewatch and soon. Life changes in an instant. I can’t think of many shows which show the lurching dislocation of a sudden event or death. 

 

The Good Wife, s05, is the best example of this. 

 

[Durckad]

18 hours ago, Relic said:

Wow....just wow.

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I wish a Vulture tweet hadnt spoiled this episode for me tho. What the hell.

 

Ah, that sucks. Especially for this episode.

Spoiler

Although I didn't get "spoiled" per se, before I had a chance to watch the episode I did see a random post on YouTube that was only a picture of Roman, Shiv, and Kendall all hugging and crying and was like "Welp, guess Logan is dying this episode. Or maybe Connor? Fucking damnit."

Even the most innocuous stuff can be a spoiler sometimes.

 

[Winterfell is Burning]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

It'd be some weird karmic justice if Connor ends up CEO, acting as a Roy  figurehead for Gerri and the Old Guard.

It would be hilarious, but my guess is that he'll act as a spoiler in the election, stealing enough votes from Mencken in some swing states and fucking up with ATN. Which would also be hilarious.

[Veltigar]

6 hours ago, Aemon Stark said:

 

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I was not in any way expecting this. Not this early in the season. I need to rewatch and soon. Life changes in an instant. I can’t think of many shows which show the lurching dislocation of a sudden event or death. 

 

For me, that's really the best thing about the episode. I appreciate this show because of the dialogue, but it will never be one of the greats for me since I cannot latch on to any of the characters. This episode was light on the jokes, but the way it progressed was eerily realistic. 

If this had happened in a show where I felt emotionally connected to the characters, it would have fucked me up royally. I wouldn't mind seeing more fiction incorporating this type of story telling.

I also want to return to Logan's best quote of this season so far and give my two cents:

Quote

You are not serious people

I think the fundamental conclusion of this show, which Logan finally openly gave voice to, is that he's flush with heirs but has no successor. Not even in a hidden Claudius I way. That's his curse, and he cannot escape it, because I do believe that Logan genuinely loves his children despite the fact that he's been a dreadful father.

The NYT had an interesting take on none of the children being a serious person. According to the commentator, it wasn't purely Logan's bad parenting that did the siblings in. They argued that the overwhelming wealth and growing up in an environment surrounded by sycophantic courtiers would have probably corrupted them even if Logan had been a decent father.

It's a rather bleak conclusion, but I do think it fits this show. I'm also pretty sure that the writers will land on an equally bleak end for this show. All the siblings except for maybe Connor emotionally broken, while they devolve into wealthy irrelevance (because of course none of these people will end up poor, that would be a happy end for the audience, which we will not get).

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Veltigar

[Heartofice]

There is something in the way this show displays events in a way that other shows just wouldn't do.

 

Spoiler

To have a main character die, pretty much the lynchpin of the whole show, just die offscreen, with no build up, no warning, no fan fare, and to instead focus 100% on the reaction to that event, just demonstrates what this show is about. Logan Roy is an amazing character but the show is essentially about how his presence and actions effect others, so it's fitting to not even show him dying properly, but to zoom in what happens to his kids. 

I just imagine any other show having the main character die, and instead would signpost it 3 episodes earlier, with a big shakespearean dramatic dying scene that drags on for an hour. Love that Succession did the opposite.

 

[Veltigar]

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There is something in the way this show displays events in a way that other shows just wouldn't do.

 

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To have a main character die, pretty much the lynchpin of the whole show, just die offscreen, with no build up, no warning, no fan fare, and to instead focus 100% on the reaction to that event, just demonstrates what this show is about. Logan Roy is an amazing character but the show is essentially about how his presence and actions effect others, so it's fitting to not even show him dying properly, but to zoom in what happens to his kids. 

I just imagine any other show having the main character die, and instead would signpost it 3 episodes earlier, with a big shakespearean dramatic dying scene that drags on for an hour. Love that Succession did the opposite.

 

There was a tiny bit of build up, though not on the level off other shows

Spoiler

There was the talk of death with his bodyguard, the fact that he was missing his family was also uncharacteristic for Logan I feel and of course, it did strike me as odd that the siblings were all kitted out for a funeral at Connor's wedding. Especially Shiv's outfit struck me as odd for the occasion.

 

[Cas Stark]

I have to hand it to the showrunner, I am eagerly anticipating the next episode and that level of engagement doesn't happen for me much anymore.  

[Zorral]

18 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

The Good Wife, s05, is the best example of this. 

 

Not to mention the death of Buffy's mother.

And I know exactly how I want it to end, though I am sure it won't end that way, but will end totally in sync with Our Real World. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Zorral

[Clueless Northman]

Impressive. Every season was better than the previous one, S3 already ended up amazingly, but S4 is still way better, imho (I know, standing on the shoulders of giants, that kind of things).

 

Spoiler

Like most, I didn't expect it that eaerly in the Season. I was assuming it would come at episode 8 more or less. Like others, I was also wondering if this was Logan fucking with the kids and testing Roman's loyalty, though it looked like the real deal quite fast.

I've also always considered Gerri, Frank and a few others (say Karolina and possibly Karl?) are the most able to take over and actually run the company, and that would've been the logical succession, done during Logan's lifetime, had Logan and the kids had any sense. With how this happened, it's not an impossible outcome - though it would be the happiest ending for the company, the employees, possibly the American people as a whole, though of course not for the kids.

Thankfully, the only forewarning I had was a shot of Connor and Willa looking intense and a bit worried or dismayed, which was obviously playing on the "Will they actually get married, or will one of them screw up?" angle we've seen in previous episodes.

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Clueless Northman

[DaveSumm]

Brian Cox is phenomenal. Now that we know episode 2 was his last full episode, he gave it the full range there; angrily barking out a pep talk that morphed into a manifesto speech on the floor of ATN, manipulating people to do his bidding, then playing placid and calm with the kids at karaoke because the situation called for it. Up there with the great television performances, the Gandolfinis, the Cranstons. 

[Cas Stark]

Yeah, I'm fairly sure when the show ends I will wish it had gone at least one more season, but I get why they are ending it now, at the top of their game.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Talking about lack of Shakespearean hour-long death drama…

Brian Cox is apparently a super well known Shakespearean actor. Of all things. As I believe the New York Times stated (and I’m paraphrasing), “it takes a damn good actor to start out pissing on a rug in confusion, ending up dying offstage, and yet, you still feel like he’s the most powerful guy in the room in between.”

You're gonna hate me.

9 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Brian Cox is phenomenal. Now that we know episode 2 was his last full episode, he gave it the full range there; angrily barking out a pep talk that morphed into a manifesto speech on the floor of ATN, manipulating people to do his bidding, then playing placid and calm with the kids at karaoke because the situation called for it. Up there with the great television performances, the Gandolfinis, the Cranstons. 

Not his best pep talk, this is:

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[kairparavel]

Re: Brian Cox, the original Hannibal Lecter *chef's kiss*

[Derfel Cadarn]

43 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I never saw “Silence of the Lambs” and I’m not sure which TV show snip that is that @Tywin et al. shared.

He’s not in Silence of thr Lambs, he played Lector in Manhunter (an adaptation of Red Dragon I think)

[Ran]

1 minute ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

He’s not in Silence of thr Lambs, he played Lector in Manhunter (an adaptation of Red Dragon I think)

Yes. Directed by Michael Mann, too.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

55 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I never saw “Silence of the Lambs” and I’m not sure which TV show snip that is that @Tywin et al. shared.

Grammar. I've never seen. 

How have you not watched Silence of the Lambs?

TV show? You're dismissing one of the greatest comedy movies of all time!
 

 

[Cas Stark]

Interesting.  More real life parallels than I thought.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/apr/13/succession-anxiety-bombshell-claims-rupert-murdoch-family

[Winterfell is Burning]

45 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Interesting.  More real life parallels than I thought.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/apr/13/succession-anxiety-bombshell-claims-rupert-murdoch-family

Key difference is that Logan seems much more rational than Murdoch. Can't see him genuinely believing all the non-sense Murdoch does. 

[Zorral]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/rupert-murdoch-cover-story#intcid=_vanity-fair-verso-hp-trending_8cfebb4f-1cc0-4503-8e57-67d28a3f4fad_popular4-1