Succession final season (spoilers)

[Winterfell is Burning]

Lord Varys, at this point, you're speculating on things the show already showed us, but not at the point you are, so it's hard to discuss with you. Without spoilers, but we see exactly who is the kids mother (well, apart from Connor, but that's also addressed), exactly how damaged are all 4 siblings, the kind of toxic environment that Logan created that allowed someone like Tom do stuff like he does, etc. 

[RumHam]

45 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not sure how he could have fucked up the kids so much. They would have had a mother, too...

Oh they have a mother, and she is something else. The oldest kid Conner has a different mother than the other three though. 

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Reading that this is supposed to be 'satire or 'black comedy' also leaves me kind of confused. It is actually not funny.

I think it can be very funny. Dark comedy, but still funny. Like a lot of shows I think it takes a bit to really figure out what it is and gets funnier as it goes along. I think of it like The Sopranos. A drama with some really good humor often mined from terrible situations. 

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In that context the network lady talking back to Shiv when she pushes her because of the Senator she is propping up feels kind of weird. Shiv can destroy that woman, never mind her standing as a famous face in the networ.. She does have the connections to ensure she is fired and never works again in television. 

I don't think she could though. Logan could, but she's not Logan and doesn't have that kinda influence over him. If she tried to tell him how to run his network at that point I think she'd just get a "fuck off."

[Heartofice]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Reading that this is supposed to be 'satire or 'black comedy' also leaves me kind of confused. It is actually not funny. The characters are mostly caricatures, but the thing is that this kind of behavior is real and it is also not funny to be at the receiving end of such abuse. Depicting this shows how such people can do it, but they'll always get away with that. It is even kind of childish that they buy off the random dudes in the pilot whose child was humilated at the baseball game. They do not really have to fear bad press, they are not politicians. What they can - and likely do - to random people we see when the youngest son threatens to destroy his personal trainer. This is real and it is not funny.

Yeah you really lost me here. There was so much wrong with what you posted but the idea the show is not funny, or that it’s somehow too cruel to be funny just makes me think you turned on the wrong show. Watching any scene of Tom picking on Greg is watching a work of art in terms of insult writing. It maybe is the best written show in terms of dialogue I can ever remember watching. Just this latest episode had so many stand out lines, there is almost not a scene that isn’t immediately quotable. The cruelty is part of that. 

[Cas Stark]

It's very funny.  I actually want 'gregging' to become a thing.  It's also often hard to watch, for me anyway.  But, this particular vein of satire/comedy/drama is not for everyone.  Definitely an acquired taste.

[Heartofice]

Here are just a few recent classics:

https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/tvfilm/succession-best-lines-insults-quotes-from-season-1-to-3-b1065782.html
 

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“I’d castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat.” (To Greg)

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“You don’t hear much about syphilis these days. Very much the MySpace of STDs.”

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“It’s like Israel/Palestine, except harder, and much more important.”

“Norway, Sweden, what’s the difference? It’s all descended from the same rapists.”

.. actually they are all good.. just read them 

[Slurktan]

Got to watch the newest one last night and Shiv is predictably Shiv.  She thinks she's smarter than everyone else and gets played because of it. Mattsen isn't even going to give her a spot of power lol.  The conversation with Tom was harsh but also great, Tom is a brownnosing snake as Shiv says but everything Tom said about Shiv is true too. fantastic. Kendall is on top of the world but that's because he's turning into his dad.

[Zorral]

Matsson glommed instantaneously what an easy Shiv [your preferred descriptive of choice] is.

Kendal is manic-depressive.  He's on the upswing momentarily, but the crash is coming.

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

Matsson glommed instantaneously what an easy Shiv [your preferred descriptive of choice] is.

I've been watching this season with some friends and one of them thinks that the entire plot with Mattson sending blood to Ebba is fabricated by gojo to turn Shiv into an asset.  

[Winterfell is Burning]

17 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

I've been watching this season with some friends and one of them thinks that the entire plot with Mattson sending blood to Ebba is fabricated by gojo to turn Shiv into an asset.  

Considering the bomb Ebba drops that hurts Mattson, it isn't fabricated 

[Darryk]

This show is one of the best I've ever seen at gradually building tension. The party in the last episode felt like a powder keg.

[RumHam]

Oh hey, any idea why they ditched Gil Eavas? Nate was working for someone else now. I had assumed the election was between him and the Nazi. I could have easily missed a line saying Gil's campaign imploaded or something. 

[Relic]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Oh hey, any idea why they ditched Gil Eavas? Nate was working for someone else now. I had assumed the election was between him and the Nazi. I could have easily missed a line saying Gil's campaign imploaded or something. 

I think Gil is running for VP along with the Latino dem nominee. 

[Clueless Northman]

On 5/9/2023 at 2:42 AM, Lord Varys said:

Not sure how he could have fucked up the kids so much. They would have had a mother, too, and they should have had nannies and tutors and replacement father figures aplenty. Especially for people like that - who do have the resources to do anything - sticking with a fucked up birth family strikes one as very unrealistic if they really loathe each other.

Dunno. It seems that arguably self-made uber-wealthy people having utterly worthless and shitty heirs is a nearly universal outcome. Besides, the kids' mom is quite a piece of work as well, though in a different way than Logan (eventually, you'll see her).

But yes, the series gets better with every season. 3rd one is really good and the 4th is way better imho, with top acting and tense and moving moments, quite rewarding - though as Zorral said, you had to get through 3 seasons to go there.

And I'm with you all the way that Logan is the only Roy worthy of running the company. The other capable people are the non-family top guys (Gerri, Frank, Karolina and the like).

 

On 5/9/2023 at 9:13 AM, Heartofice said:

Watching any scene of Tom picking on Greg is watching a work of art in terms of insult writing. It maybe is the best written show in terms of dialogue I can ever remember watching.

The friend who gave me the 3-seasons boxset late last year told me that it's the series with the crudest language she's ever watched. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but it surely comes quite close.

 

Whatever, another amazing episode. I too wondered if Tom would stay on the good side of the balcony, and if Ken and Matsson would end up getting actually physical. And Tom and Shiv lobbing truthbombs at each other - while Tom being still oblivious to Shiv's actual state...

[Zorral]

Never hated these people so much -- and I've always hated these people and hate them more every time.

[Relic]

Well, that was extremely depressing. The idiots finally accomplished something...

Edited May 15, 2023 by Relic

[Winterfell is Burning]

Did they actually did? Because by the end, we see other networks questioning ATN and not joining the bandwagon.

[sifth]

Was this episode suppose to be a parody of the 2020 election, where Trump declared victory early, only to be made to look like an idiot, when it turned out he actually lost? 

[Winterfell is Burning]

12 minutes ago, sifth said:

Was this episode suppose to be a parody of the 2020 election, where Trump declared victory early, only to be made to look like an idiot, when it turned out he actually lost? 

You see, that bit in the end when rather than seeing everyone following ATN, they are questioning it's call, made me think that by the end, it's possible that Jimenez actually wins. That would tank the company's stock and credibility, allowing Mattson to buy it on the cheap, and effectively ending Roy control of the company. Which would explain why the show's ending 

[Cas Stark]

I'd be bored if this wasn't the last season.  I still  have no idea where they will end, but they keep showing us what terrible people the Roys are so presumably, the unserious heirs aren't going to end up taking over.

[Gaston de Foix]

4 hours ago, sifth said:

Was this episode suppose to be a parody of the 2020 election, where Trump declared victory early, only to be made to look like an idiot, when it turned out he actually lost? 

No, I think it's a parody of 2016 where the unthinkable happened.  It's 2016 with big tweaks. 

4 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

You see, that bit in the end when rather than seeing everyone following ATN, they are questioning it's call, made me think that by the end, it's possible that Jimenez actually wins. That would tank the company's stock and credibility, allowing Mattson to buy it on the cheap, and effectively ending Roy control of the company. Which would explain why the show's ending 

Doubt it.  That bit feels like Bush v Gore in 2000 where the networks kept arguing and debating but the momentum behind the presumptive winner kept building even as the legal process and the carnival show kept rolling on.  

The big question here to my mind is that we are getting to peak hubris for the Roys, and for Waystar Royco. They've ridden the tiger into the White House.  Ken is planning a reverse viking pillage of GoJo.  Shiv got pushed aside, indulged in treachery, and is basically finished with her brothers.  

Somehow I can't see this show ending with Ken or Roman as the successor, taking over GoJo, and on top of the world, can you?  It feels like Logan's last words "you are not serious people" was meant to be prophetic. 

Nemesis is coming, and the real tension is from where and to what end.  I think obviously the three siblings get screwed.  But we have only two episodes left, so hard to see what the victorious alliance here will look like.  I can see Ken's reverse pillage blowing up in his face.  Maybe Menken screws Roman and allies with Mattson with an assist from the elders.  Shiv gets used and dumped.