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I don't understand the point of being so vehemently anti-Stark


Craving Peaches
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There's obviously nothing wrong with disliking them or not caring about them, but I don't understand why such great lengths are gone to in order to paint them as evil/villains etc. when it is fairly obvious we are meant to see them as protagonists. Being ambivalent is one thing, so is disliking the Starks because you think they are overrated or just think people care too much, but when it reaches the point where you need to paint Roose, the Freys, Bowen, Slynt the baby murderer and bloody Ramsay as righteous folk who were unjustly attacked by the evil Starks, well...

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1) Such is the state of modern fandom, you can't like more than one thing. So these people have decided they are Team Dany (or whoever) and therefore everyone else must suck by definition, and by putting them down you indirectly boost your own side. This is obviously pathetic, but it's definitely a thing that happens.

2) Straightforward trolling.

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Just now, Adelstein said:

1) Such is the state of modern fandom, you can't like more than one thing. So these people have decided they are Team Dany (or whoever) and therefore everyone else must suck by definition, and by putting them down you indirectly boost your own side. This is obviously pathetic, but it's definitely a thing that happens.

:(

Just now, Adelstein said:

2) Straightforward trolling.

Sad but true.

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The starks are worse than the others and ghiscari slavers combined...the others may in fact be trying to save us from their unbounded evil!

 

We know the starks are utter evil ....taking control of the north from the caring boltons and friendly ironborn, building a wall to trap people in their nightmare three worshipping dystopia!

Long Before the books we know slutty lyanna stark stole prince rhaegars heart forcing the good king aerys to bring her wicked brother and father to the capital to honest trial....after losing said trial sneaky traitor jon arryn(clearly driven  mad with lust by the promise of  one of hosters famously  trampy young daughters ) refused his kings orders and got a war started , despite some minor battlefield .losses brave lord tywin and his son jamie ended the bloodshed.

Then pre books Evil sneak and bastard fatherer ned stark took advantage of king roberts friendship and tried to steal the realm from brave king joffery and rightfully lost his head. His traitor daughter arya (who had good kong joffery set upon by a dozen boys and her wolf) escaped from KL not before her foriegn tutor injured many brave goldcloaks. Her other sister remained captive but her evil toungue provoked young joffery to correct her outlandish cheek time and again.

He bastard brother jon apaprently later took over the watch and almost ruined it until brave patruots struck out , meanwhile her bloodthirsty older brother slaughtered brave lannsiter troops until kindly father figure walder frey helped end his mad 'kingship'!.

 

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5 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

The starks are worse than the others and ghiscari slavers combined...the others may in fact be trying to save us from their unbounded evil!

Yeah, remember when evil Rickard killed his own son and then killed himself and tried to make it look like Good King Aerys did it?

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Yeah, I agree @Craving Peaches. I don’t care if someone dislikes the Starks, even if they vehemently dislike them. In fact, I don’t even care if there’s no reason, like, “I really don’t like the Starks just because”. That’s fine, it’s their right. But as you said, when you have to defend the vilest characters in the books just to try and paint the Starks in a bad light, that’s where I start scratching my head. 
The other aspect of this is that I just think it’s soooooooooo weird that someone would choose to come across as being incapable of understanding the text just to diss a fictional character… I mean, I’m old enough to remember a time when people didn’t like to look ignorant… but now (and this is something we see irl as well), it’s like they wear it like a badge of honour. Beyond bizarre if you ask me. 

Edited by kissdbyfire
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2 hours ago, Adelstein said:

1) Such is the state of modern fandom, you can't like more than one thing. So these people have decided they are Team Dany (or whoever) and therefore everyone else must suck by definition, and by putting them down you indirectly boost your own side. This is obviously pathetic, but it's definitely a thing that happens.

2) Straightforward trolling.

These two reasons, and maybe a third possibility.  Sometimes I wonder if a few of these seemingly obsessively Stark-haters who are also seemingly obsessive DanyFanatics... actually hate Daenerys and are doing some reverse-psychology trolling?  They align themselves with the most vile of undefendable characters (Walder Frey, Ramsay Bolton, etc.), and it crossed my mind that perhaps maybe by praising these deplorable characters and Daenerys Targaryen in the same breath, they are just trying to dump her in the villain bucket.

To be clear, if this applies to anyone, it is only a small number of people.  And I'm not convinced this is the case for anyone... just a remote possibility.

I'm no Dany fan, but I obviously I don't think she is anywhere near as bad as the outright villains some posters are propping up in a failed attempt to villainize the Starks.  While there are plenty of Daenerys fans who like her for all the right reasons, the overload of Stark-haters on this forum would annoy me even more if I was a Dany fan than it does as a non-fan.

Edited by StarkTullies
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I’m no Dany fan, however, never felt the need to diss her or her fans.   What is the point?!   
edt: if they are really Dany fans, where are the Dany threads?  They seem to just like trolling the Jon fans.   Don’t feed the trolls. 

Edited by LongRider
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I'm not sure how many of them are actually using reverse psychology to try to vilify Daenerys (though I agree the number is nonzero), but I fully agree that this sort is oddly silent when it comes to Dany for so-called Dany fans. I think they just realize that their insane Targ supremacy rhetoric is an easy vehicle of trolling; and obviously, the Starks collectively are much more popular than any one character, so they make an easy target.

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1 hour ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

I'm not sure how many of them are actually using reverse psychology to try to vilify Daenerys (though I agree the number is nonzero), but I fully agree that this sort is oddly silent when it comes to Dany for so-called Dany fans. I think they just realize that their insane Targ supremacy rhetoric is an easy vehicle of trolling; and obviously, the Starks collectively are much more popular than any one character, so they make an easy target.

See back in the day on this forum, Dany used to be the one getting mindlessly hated on. I’ll confess, I was a younger man, fresh out of High school. I mindlessly hated her to, but I grew out of it. I’m talking 2014-2015 era, you couldn’t go a day without a new topic trashing Dany. She isn’t perfect, but she isn’t like most of her family.

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Just now, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said:

See back in the day on this forum, Dany used to be the one getting mindlessly hated on. I’ll confess, I was a younger man, fresh out of High school. I mindlessly hated her to, but I grew out of it. I’m talking 2014-2015 era, you couldn’t go a day without a new topic trashing Dany. She isn’t perfect, but she isn’t like most of her family.

Oh, for sure. The Apple Martini brigade in particular was something else.

This insanity with people siding with the noble Boltons, Freys, Lannisters, etc. who had no choice but to respond in kind to the evil oath-breaking Starks, started with people siding with the poor, venerable Ghiscari slavers trying to deal with an evil oppressor and tyrant, Daenerys.

Of course, there were cycles before then, but these extremes weren't altogether that common until maybe around ten to twelve years ago. Prior to then, it was "just" stuff like Cat being the worst human being ever and starting the War of the Five Kings, with Tywin having no choice but to raze the Riverlands.

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Yes, I can't explain it or comprehend it.  These are characters in a story of high fantasy.  We are meant to see them as flawed characters and some are vile beyond question.   It's turned into a kind of competition for some readers.  I don't know what to say to that and I pass on those threads.

I am very much appreciating the humour that is coming out in some threads.  There can't be too much of that for my liking. 

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2 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

Oh, for sure. The Apple Martini brigade in particular was something else.

This insanity with people siding with the noble Boltons, Freys, Lannisters, etc. who had no choice but to respond in kind to the evil oath-breaking Starks, started with people siding with the poor, venerable Ghiscari slavers trying to deal with an evil oppressor and tyrant, Daenerys.

Of course, there were cycles before then, but these extremes weren't altogether that common until maybe around ten to twelve years ago. Prior to then, it was "just" stuff like Cat being the worst human being ever and starting the War of the Five Kings, with Tywin having no choice but to raze the Riverlands.

Tell me about it.  The hair-splitting distinctions about good slavers and bad ones, and how Dany doesn’t bother to attempt to distinguish them;  between tokar -wearers (innocent) and slavers (guilty);  how only a tiny faction are responsible for the savagery of Slavers Bay, but Dany kills them “at random.” Then, the arguments of “I don’t support slavery, but …”. (Ignore everything before the “but”).

Pity the poor Boltons/Freys/Aerys/Tywin is something else.  The author makes no attempt to hide the fact that these people (like the slavers) are not flawed but somewhat decent people.  They are total monsters.

It is indeed, a while since we had a thread on Catelyn the Monster, the Evil Stepmother.

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22 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Tell me about it.  The hair-splitting distinctions about good slavers and bad ones, and how Dany doesn’t bother to attempt to distinguish them;  between tokar -wearers (innocent) and slavers (guilty);  how only a tiny faction are responsible for the savagery of Slavers Bay, but Dany kills them “at random.” Then, the arguments of “I don’t support slavery, but …”. (Ignore everything before the “but”).

Reprehensible slavery apologiae notwithstanding, none of those supposed distinctions and nuances have any bearing in the text either. In fact, it's quite clear throughout A Dance with Dragons that Dany compromises too much for the sake of peace with those who exploit it, avoids bloodshed at all costs when most of these people deserve to bleed, and sets overly high standards of guilt in the pursuit of justice, which ironically results in injustice.

27 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Pity the poor Boltons/Freys/Aerys/Tywin is something else.  The author makes no attempt to hide the fact that these people (like the slavers) are not flawed but somewhat decent people.  They are total monsters.

Absolutely. He pulls no punches in describing how vile the antagonists to the Starks are, from War Criminal Extraordinaire Tywin to Flaying Rapist Murderer Ramsay. As with Dany and the slavers, it's obviously meant to be a lighter grey opposed to what is almost pitch-black. The Lannister/Frey/Bolton faction (and Aerys II, in the past) don't even have respect for social contracts as fundamentally important to Westeros as guest right, much less a sense of noblesse oblige; and these are the absolute minimum expectations for nobility that enjoys all the power, agency, and wealth in the realm.

30 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It is indeed, a while since we had a thread on Catelyn the Monster, the Evil Stepmother.

Well, now you've jinxed it. :laugh:

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7 hours ago, Adelstein said:

1) Such is the state of modern fandom, you can't like more than one thing. So these people have decided they are Team Dany (or whoever) and therefore everyone else must suck by definition, and by putting them down you indirectly boost your own side. This is obviously pathetic, but it's definitely a thing that happens.

2) Straightforward trolling.

3.  They don't understand what they're reading.  

4.  To get a rise out of someone.  Anyone.  

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

It is indeed, a while since we had a thread on Catelyn the Monster, the Evil Stepmother.

Catelyn sucks.  Much as I dislike and disagree with her decisions and actions I do get some of it.  Still think she sucks.  Have at it.  

Edited by Curled Finger
after thought
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