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I don't understand the point of being so vehemently anti-Stark


Craving Peaches
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On 2/26/2023 at 4:12 PM, Craving Peaches said:

There's obviously nothing wrong with disliking them or not caring about them, but I don't understand why such great lengths are gone to in order to paint them as evil/villains etc. when it is fairly obvious we are meant to see them as protagonists. Being ambivalent is one thing, so is disliking the Starks because you think they are overrated or just think people care too much, but when it reaches the point where you need to paint Roose, the Freys, Bowen, Slynt the baby murderer and bloody Ramsay as righteous folk who were unjustly attacked by the evil Starks, well...

Because if you are a Targ loyalist, the Starks are the villain, and you need them to be framed as the villain of the whole series. If you want Dany on the throne, Arya, Sansa, Jon and Bran all need to let that happen, and that's 4 to 1. But if Jon is a traitor, Arya is a psychopath, Sansa is complicit, and Bran is the Night's King, then they can be sure that their queen is the one true queen. It's a level of investment in the outcome of a fictional civil war that suggests pretty negative tendencies about the person's cultish IRL behavior which is why I think the entire community gets so up-in-arms about what would otherwise be a couple of misguided readers.

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5 hours ago, Otatop1000 said:

I hate Dany, I also hate Cat.

I used to like Daenerys, then I became apathetic but now with all the stupid 'Daenerys the Messiah will destroy the Evil Starks' stuff I am really starting to dislike her. I don't hate Catelyn. As a person I think she has ups and downs, but I enjoyed her chapters especially in A Clash of Kings because Renly. It was not nice at all for her to say that to Jon, needlessly bitter and uncalled for. While I don't condone the killing of Jinglebell, I got the impression from reading the chapter that Catelyn had lost it by that point. I don't really consider Lady Stoneheart to be Catelyn.

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28 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I used to like Daenerys, then I became apathetic but now with all the stupid 'Daenerys the Messiah will destroy the Evil Starks' stuff I am really starting to dislike her. I don't hate Catelyn. As a person I think she has ups and downs, but I enjoyed her chapters especially in A Clash of Kings because Renly. It was not nice at all for her to say that to Jon, needlessly bitter and uncalled for. While I don't condone the killing of Jinglebell, I got the impression from reading the chapter that Catelyn had lost it by that point. I don't really consider Lady Stoneheart to be Catelyn.

One should not let the Abomination influence one's views, but unfortunately, it does.

So, I came absolutely to detest Tyrion, after the show. I loathe beyond measure, the Samwell of the show, (John Bradley really was the standout actor, portraying the understated sleaze of a cowardly, spiteful, incel), but I try to distinguish him from the book character, who is much nicer.  I became a good deal more sympathetic to Daenerys, after Season 8.   The "Evil Starks" stuff may be a reaction to the show, but most of it is so obviously stupid that I just shrug it off.

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I should add, while the Evil Starks stuff is stupid, and they are three and a half of the six main protagonists, one should not whitewash them either.

Like every other royal or noble character, they are willing to make the Smallfolk suffer, to achieve their political ends.  Such an outlook simply comes with the territory.

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11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I should add, while the Evil Starks stuff is stupid, and they are three and a half of the six main protagonists, one should not whitewash them either.

Like every other royal or noble character, they are willing to make the Smallfolk suffer, to achieve their political ends.  Such an outlook simply comes with the territory.

Ideally no one, including main characters such as Daenerys and the Starks, should be whitewashed. There are legitimate things to criticise the Starks for, but they are not mentioned by the haters nearly as much as the made up stuff, perhaps because you would then have to criticise all noble characters for it, including Daenerys.

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2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Ideally no one, including main characters such as Daenerys and the Starks, should be whitewashed. There are legitimate things to criticise the Starks for, but they are not mentioned by the haters nearly as much as the made up stuff, perhaps because you would then have to criticise all noble characters for it, including Daenerys.

There are issues to criticise Robb and Jon over, so Janos the Martyr, Walder the Noble, and Ramsay the Heroic are strange hills to die upon.

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To update my prev post lets look at the current  evil starks.

Cat stark: evil undead sore loser now preying on the brave freys who not so long ago saved the river lands from the werewolf invasion AND they threw her family a wedding too! So she ate their food, enjoyed their music and 'other entertainment' and now shes killing them!! That family dodged a crossbow bolt (something her son apparently sucks at) getting linked to those nutters!

Arya: assasin culling the ranks of hard working entrepreneurs innbravos and joining spooky death cult

Sansa: after killing sweet king joffery and corrupting sandor clegane shes now gone to the vale where shes helped kill stable lysa arryn and is plotting to use her outragously slutty ways to seduce harry the heir for her sugardaddy littlefinger

Jon snow:undead pretender to the throne stabbed by brave night watch patriots who will soon kill the last giant and cleanse the wall of wildling scum. Jons known fetish for wildling girls had once again led him astray between marrying a noble girl from a major house to a savage to unexpectedly tryingto murser ramsay bolton...ramsay the hero of moat catlin and survivor of the terrible ironborn massacre outside winterfell

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56 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

To update my prev post lets look at the current  evil starks.

Cat stark: evil undead sore loser now preying on the brave freys who not so long ago saved the river lands from the werewolf invasion AND they threw her family a wedding too! So she ate their food, enjoyed their music and 'other entertainment' and now shes killing them!! That family dodged a crossbow bolt (something her son apparently sucks at) getting linked to those nutters!

Arya: assasin culling the ranks of hard working entrepreneurs innbravos and joining spooky death cult

Sansa: after killing sweet king joffery and corrupting sandor clegane shes now gone to the vale where shes helped kill stable lysa arryn and is plotting to use her outragously slutty ways to seduce harry the heir for her sugardaddy littlefinger

Jon snow:undead pretender to the throne stabbed by brave night watch patriots who will soon kill the last giant and cleanse the wall of wildling scum. Jons known fetish for wildling girls had once again led him astray between marrying a noble girl from a major house to a savage to unexpectedly tryingto murser ramsay bolton...ramsay the hero of moat catlin and survivor of the terrible ironborn massacre outside winterfell

Don't forget Ned Stark, who was so treacherous he betrayed his rightful king twice!

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8 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Or  lil rickon doing the gods knows what with the savages on skagos!

Lookin' forward the tales of Wild Child Rickon, ShaggyDog the Mad Wolf and their spear wife Osha!  

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11 hours ago, LongRider said:

Lookin' forward the tales of Wild Child Rickon, ShaggyDog the Mad Wolf and their spear wife Osha!  

It could be a major plotpoint

Id imagine the skagosi where sorta iffy about backing the soft civilised  mainlander starks but  now they've met the clearly.warging  wild kid  with his loyal wildling protector and theyl be more keen to get behind the cause. We see  before he left winterfell the lil.rugrat even won over the freys a bit

Edited by astarkchoice
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  • 3 months later...
On 2/26/2023 at 6:44 PM, sifth said:

The troll posts, about how the Starks are the most evil characters in the series always amuse me. The best part is always, when these same people usually defend rapist, slavers and other evil characters in the series.

I remember one of the trolls literally saying that he supported slavery. 

 

I still think it's just one random basement guy, with a bunch of different accounts. Note that they have a relatively low post count (a couple hundred) as compared to people like Craving Peaches, Varys, Curled Finger, SeanF, me (with thousands of posts, I'm on the low spectrum with only around 2k posts), etc. 

They all have extremely similar writing styles, never seem to give out evidence and seem oblivious to the scorn they get. 

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5 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I remember one of the trolls literally saying that he supported slavery. 

 

I still think it's just one random basement guy, with a bunch of different accounts. Note that they have a relatively low post count (a couple hundred) as compared to people like Craving Peaches, Varys, Curled Finger, SeanF, me (with thousands of posts, I'm on the low spectrum with only around 2k posts), etc. 

They all have extremely similar writing styles, never seem to give out evidence and seem oblivious to the scorn they get. 

They all make a similar spacing mistake, I've noticed.

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5 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I remember one of the trolls literally saying that he supported slavery. 

 

I still think it's just one random basement guy, with a bunch of different accounts. Note that they have a relatively low post count (a couple hundred) as compared to people like Craving Peaches, Varys, Curled Finger, SeanF, me (with thousands of posts, I'm on the low spectrum with only around 2k posts), etc. 

They all have extremely similar writing styles, never seem to give out evidence and seem oblivious to the scorn they get. 

I mean…low post numbers just means they don’t come as often. I have low post numbers because I only come here when I am currently reading the books. In the times I disappear, I might be busy with work, or a different hobby, or meeting a lot of friends, etc. 

I think the similar writing styles comes from the fact that it wouldn’t be surprising if they had similar political/social views in real life as well. I am a big basketball fan, and there are certain fans who constantly overrate white players and insult/put down Black players. They all also post in similar manners and use similar grammar. The reason isn’t because they are all the same person….it’s (to be blunt) because they are uneducated (probably) racist hicks. In other spaces, you get the 4chan/other incel-esq posts where they are so used to their echo chamber that they all make the same/very similar takes with the same style of writing. 

TLDR - I think they are different people, just you are underestimating how common these people are in certain areas (of the US but also probably other Western countries). I grew up with them, and they all said the same idiotic things then, too. 

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12 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

TLDR - I think they are different people, just you are underestimating how common these people are in certain areas (of the US but also probably other Western countries). I grew up with them, and they all said the same idiotic things then, too. 

I ran into quite the opposite. I use to post a lot on video game forums, like ign and whenever someone had a hot topic, that no one would agree with, people would make alts, with hardly any posts to support their hot topic. One person in particular had 4 or 5 accounts, "claimed" they were his brothers, sisters and cousin, yet they only would ever show up when the person stuck his foot in his mouth, and always agreed with whatever stupid thing their "sibling" said. They were basically The Borg family, ha ha ha

It was honestly the most pathetic attempt I've ever seen by someone who was clearly using multiple accounts.

Edited by sifth
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1 hour ago, sifth said:

I ran into quite the opposite. I use to post a lot on video game forums, like ign and whenever someone had a hot topic, that no one would agree with, people would make alts, with hardly any posts to support their hot topic. One person in particular had 4 or 5 accounts, "claimed" they were his brothers, sisters and cousin, yet they only would ever show up when the person stuck his foot in his mouth, and always agreed with whatever stupid thing their "sibling" said. They were basically The Borg family, ha ha ha

It was honestly the most pathetic attempt I've ever seen by someone who was clearly using multiple accounts.

To be fair, the "Stark hate" posts seem to mostly pre-date me coming back to the forum, so I actually have only read...one of them since coming back. I remember their being a lot of "Targaryens are angels who should never be criticized" threads when I first came back though, lol. Oh, and a few "Cersei is....good somehow" threads that boggled my mind. 

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On 7/22/2023 at 6:30 PM, Craving Peaches said:

I don't really consider Lady Stoneheart to be Catelyn.

Cause she isn't. She is like...one emotion Catelyn had right before dying, not Catelyn. Like, if you took my mood/emotions immediately after someone punched me my partner in the face, and then somehow erased the rest of my existence. I assume I'd be quite angry/vengeful/crazed, etc. 

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4 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

So the mystery lone wolf Stark hater (hah!) is quite similar to the near pure evil guy, but with more accounts?

Yep. They all just sound so similar. If you're willing to risk your sanity, you might read through a bunch of their posts and see. 

3 hours ago, sifth said:

They all make a similar spacing mistake, I've noticed.

Where do they make it?

3 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I mean…low post numbers just means they don’t come as often. I have low post numbers because I only come here when I am currently reading the books. In the times I disappear, I might be busy with work, or a different hobby, or meeting a lot of friends, etc. 

 

That's true, but you would think a person who could only come here occasionally would try to have some fun, rather than have a dozen people whack their arguments to bits. 

They all seem to simply not notice the amount of ridicule they get when they post, and they agree with everything the other says. And before you say the vacuum chamber thing, even people who agree on a lot of things can misinterpret passages of a book or something like that. I agree with my dad on a lot of things, but we still read a lot of situations very differently. 

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5 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

So the mystery lone wolf Stark hater (hah!) is quite similar to the near pure evil guy, but with more accounts?

Do you agree that the Stark haters are Near Pure Evil?

For those who don't know, there are several wikis for villains. One of them is called the [continue ad nauseam]

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