Corvo the Crow Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 A thread I have for a long time thought on opening, yet didn't due to lack of content, so I am here, opening it with the hopes of others(not with a capital "O" I hope!) can add up to it. The idea of Val and Dalla being sisters not by blood( or maybe in addition to being sisters by blood), but as in an order, like that of the black brothers, was an idea that was proposed long ago in the forums, with Dalla being a "wisewoman" something emphasized on and the thought came to me again some months back, after opening the two threads I'll add below and a third one that I can't find at the moment, but didn't have much content anyway. To summarize the threads: The first one is about The Last Hero being the so called "Thirteenth" Lord Commander who was actually thirteenth only because the Last Hero set out with a dozen companions, and TLH or 13th LC also being a Stark (or more likely Snow) that is a brother of Brandon. The second one is Val, Morna and Lyanna (as KotLT) all bearing as heraldic devices a weirwood trees with faces, proposing the existence of a matrilineal house of weirwood making them all and through Lyanna Jon as well, who by the way also has a weirwood device in the form of... none other than Ghost. Quote Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one. And he alone of all the direwolves was white. Six pups they'd found in the late summer snows, him and Robb; five that were grey and black and brown, for the five Starks, and one white, as white as Snow. The third didn't have much content but was a question on how come the wildlings ended up on the other, or rather, Other, side of the wall which I have an idea of and was going to add in another thread I intended on opening a few weeks ago but hadn't had the time for it yet. A final bit I mentioned in an old post of mine that came to me while writing Quote "Did you follow me as well?" Jon reached to shoo the bird away but ended up stroking its feathers. The raven cocked its eye at him. "Snow," it muttered, bobbing its head knowingly. Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him. They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well … but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely. "Have you been trying to steal my wolf?" he asked her. ... A small crowd of black brothers was waiting by the gate when Jon and his companions emerged south of the Wall. Ulmer of the Kingswood was amongst them, and it was the old archer who came forward to speak for the rest. "If it please m'lord, the lads were wondering. Will it be peace, m'lord? Or blood and iron?" "Peace," Jon Snow replied. "Three days hence, Tormund Giantsbane will lead his people through the Wall. As friends, not foes. Some may even swell our ranks, as brothers. It will be for us to make them welcome. Now back to your duties." Jon handed the reins of his horse to Satin. "I must see Queen Selyse." Her Grace would take it as a slight if he did not come to her at once. "Afterward I will have letters to write. Bring parchment, quills, and a pot of maester's black to my chambers. Then summon Marsh, Yarwyck, Septon Cellador, Clydas." Cellador would be half-drunk, and Clydas was a poor substitute for a real maester, but they were what he had. Till Sam returns. "The northmen too. Flint and Norrey. Leathers, you should be there as well." "Hobb is baking onion pies," said Satin. "Shall I request that they all join you for supper?" "The crow commands, the captive must obey." Her tone was playful. "This queen of yours must be fierce if the legs of grown men give out beneath them when they meet her. Should I have dressed in mail instead of wool and fur? These clothes were given to me by Dalla, I would sooner not get bloodstains all over them." "If words drew blood, you might have cause to fear. I think your clothes are safe enough, my lady." -ADWD Jon XI Val's white clothes given to her by Dalla, her sister. Like perhaps Jon's black clothes being given to him by his brothers? With all I can add to this for now added, what are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I really like the sound of it but I don't think it will happen and the evidence is a bit circumstantial and flimsy because it could just be a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 Just now, Craving Peaches said: I really like the sound of it but I don't think it will happen and the evidence is a bit circumstantial and flimsy because it could just be a coincidence. Evidence regarding what? The Order of White Sisters? There isn't even any, none that I have found at least. If you mean the House of the Weirwood though, I think not. I think I haven't added this in it's own thread but Val still being referred to as a Princess could also have something to do with that. Not with most people saying it, no, they just do it because they are parrots repeating what they hear from Stannis or Mel without understanding anything but Stannis is a man all for formality, he may have unknowingly called her a princess at first, not knowing much about Wildlings, but still keeping to do it even after what Jon has said, is out of character for him. Winterfell going along with Val's hand may also have something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said: Evidence regarding what? Just the evidence for the propositions in the OP in general. I really like them and think it would be cool, I just don't think it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sword Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I love the idea. I always looked at Val as a Priestess or a Druid of the North(Old Gods) type of character. I have exactly 0 evidence to back this up though. Just feels right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Corvo,I have a link to an old thread on Val if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 1, 2023 Author Share Posted March 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, LongRider said: Corvo,I have a link to an old thread on Val if you're interested. Thread on Val, you say? Always interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Thread on Val, you say? Always interested! I'm looking for another I've read too, hope I find it. Enjoy! Tormund and Val; Jon's Intermediaries to the Old Gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Here's one I hadn't seen before: Jon and Val compendium. This one looks real interesting and has a link or two to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Sorta a Threadjack, but aren't the Septas color-coded, Blue, White and Gray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, LongRider said: I'm looking for another I've read too, hope I find it. Enjoy! Tormund and Val; Jon's Intermediaries to the Old Gods? Only took a glance so not sure if this is there, a small something on Tormund and Val I've posted several years back. Quote Valhalla comes from Valr + Holl Valr means dead/fallen warriors Valkyrie is Valkyrja, Valr + Kjosa Kjosa is to choose Valkyrie is chooser of the fallen. Female attendants of Odin guiding the fallen to Valhalla A Valkyrie is also a large, strong, courageous or agressive woman. Val, thought of as a warrior princess by Jon, is all of the above except large. Tormund is mead king of Ruddy(Red) Hall Odin is also a gos of lightning ans thunder among other things and is often accompanied by his wolf and crow companions. One of Tormund's many titles is thunderfist and by his own admission he's fond of wargs. He is also called a crowlover by Harma dogshead. I've always wondered why Tormund liked Val so much. Now I have an answer I think. Oh and Val leads Tormund and his followers to the Wall so in a sense she has led the ones that later came back for Jon's ranging to... shieldhall. Shield hall is the place where knightly brothers leave their shields to be hung when they say their oaths but their shields are taken down when they die. So, the Shieldhall of NW is not a hall of the fallen warriors, but one for the living ones. Val has led them to hall of the living. And oh, now that I looked at it again, ruddy, apart from red, also means a healthy red color if used for a person's face. Tormund is king of healthy, therefore living, people and Val guides the living to there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: Tormund I think 'Tormumd' might mean 'Gate Mouth' literally in German. The ending 'mund' can also mean protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: I think 'Tormumd' might mean 'Gate Mouth' literally in German. The ending 'mund' can also mean protection. In french it seems to mean top of the hill or hill tower or something like that. Source: wiktionary disclaimer little sleep so not comprehending what I read much. His name could also be a GRRMized version of... TORMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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