Jump to content

Star Wars: Go home (M)Ando(r), the Zillo Beast Is Back (Again!)


Lord Varys
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Same, but i was a lot less picky back then too! I can’t imagine watching any of the crap I watched in the past now. 
 

I think Disney and others made the mistake of copying the Netflix model of trying to pump out lots of content to keep viewers, but actually I think they could do more with less.. which is maybe what they are realising 

One of the many reasons I love podcasts. You subscribe to the ones you like and new episodes appear on your phone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problem with TLJ is that I don’t enjoy rewatching it. Even TPM and AOTC, which I consider far inferior movies, I still enjoy rewatching. With TLJ, I just get bored. (At the same time, I consider the last half hour to be the best part of the movie. I really loved Luke’s last stand. One thing that annoyed me was them claiming that Ach-To had twin suns like Tattooine. Luke hallucinating and thinking that he was back home, which was how I originally perceived that scene, was so much more powerful).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's remarkable that TLJ generally divided along the lines of: Luke's arc was terrible or why did the race across space have to be essentially in slow motion? Yet all agree the whole Canto Blight part was just awful.

Personally, I like a lot of the ideas with what Luke was going through and hated just about everything with the space race. Mind you, the sequels suffer from some pretty terrible protagonists. Of the primary three, Rey and Finn could have been utilized much better. Poe has always been a weak leak for those movies. 

I find none of the sequel trilogies to be rewatchable while I can easily have any of the prequels on and even pay attention at times.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Trust me, no one wants to read this essay.

Though I'm totally okay with people not liking Luke's arc even though it worked really well for me. Disagreemenets regarding what the character is supposed to be are common in films, Hammil himself said so and had similar disagreements with Lucas.

Your mom might, she loves my essays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Darryk said:

The obi-wan series came after everything else so if anything that was the retcon.

The idea that "we don't think characters should change" seems similar to the "you don't like TLJ cause it tries new stuff" argument in that it's a type of condescending dismissiveness toward the opinions of people who don't like TLJ.

No, I am saying that for a good chunk of Star Wars fandom they do not want any actual character changes. And that's fine! Arguing that this is not who Luke is fundamentally is by its very nature saying 'and therefore it cannot ever change'. That's the crux of the argument. 

I think it's entirely reasonable to state that what folks wanted was Luke, the aging but awesome Jedi Master who is incredibly powerful and incredibly noble just like he was at the end of RotJ and as he was in the EU books. But if you say that it's impossible for him to be anything else, that this is not in character despite over 30 years passing - then you're not really wanting any kind of meaningful change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Debating if the movie is good or not is pretty pointless. No one is convincing anyone else. So i won't write a thousand words on the topic. Personally, I hate that Johnson took a shared toy and changed it the way he thought it should be changed. His vision is far removed from mine own. Just a fundamental disagreement. I also blame Abrahms and the idiots at Disney that didn't have a coherent plan before filming the ST. 

Edited by Relic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Yeah, until Rebels retconned it I don't think it was particularly weird to think that obi wan was giving up and was done. Same with Yoda. Heck, that is the entire premise of the obi wan series, so it isn't that odd. 

It was definitely the intent in A New Hope that Obi had given up, but then I don’t think the two situations are analogous. Obi Wan gave up because the Empire took over entirely, exterminated the Jedi (as far as he knew, all except Yoda) and were expressly murdering any who put their head above the parapet. It seems entirely logical to hide in this scenario. There was No Hope (until the New Hope).

Luke went into hiding despite the government still being entirely amenable to Jedi and Jedi schools, and there being potentially plenty of Jedi looking to be taught, all because his first school didn’t go to plan. He just went and did a sulk despite the fact that his presence was very clearly needed. So there was no logic to his hiding, nor any audience demand for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Relic said:

Debating if the movie is good or not is pretty pointless. No one is convincing anyone else. So i won't write a thousand words on the topic. Personally, I hate that Johnson took a shared toy and changed it the way he thought it should be changed. His vision is far removed from mine own. Just a fundamental disagreement. 

To be clear he wasn't the one who changed it. That would be JJ. Having Luke be the MacGuffin was already a massive change to the kind of person Luke was and already put absolutely no effort in explaining that backstory or setting it up in any meaningful way. TFA decided to reuse the characters from the OT instead of going for completely new story beats. It was rooted in nostalgia and static development, going even so far as to say that both Han and Leia randomly just went back to what they knew best. 

RJ was given a fairly impossible task - somehow fit Luke into a story where he had been gone for a decade and wanted to stay gone while his friends died, the galaxy was under attack and entire planets were killed. He chose one way, but having to make that choice was the real problem in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DaveSumm said:

It was definitely the intent in A New Hope that Obi had given up, but then I don’t think the two situations are analogous. Obi Wan gave up because the Empire took over entirely, exterminated the Jedi (as far as he knew, all except Yoda) and were expressly murdering any who put their head above the parapet. It seems entirely logical to hide in this scenario. There was No Hope (until the New Hope).

I don't think that's true. Especially if he's hiding while also thinking about protecting Luke but not protecting Leia. The best way for him to protect Luke is to not be on Anakin's home planet. Doing so risks everything - which we actually see happen in the Obi-Wan miniseries. 

It's also clear that Obi-Wan kinda gave up, Yoda SUPER gave up. 

1 minute ago, DaveSumm said:

Luke went into hiding despite the government still being entirely amenable to Jedi and Jedi schools, and there being potentially plenty of Jedi looking to be taught, all because his first school didn’t go to plan. He just went and did a sulk despite the fact that his presence was very clearly needed. So there was no logic to his hiding, nor any audience demand for it.

Luke went into hiding because he betrayed his family, destroyed the trust of his sister and her husband, got all of his students killed and gave a major force user dark side power. At that point he 100% believes he is an utter failure as a teacher; why would he then say 'welp, time to teach more Jedi' after that debacle? Saying his first school 'didn't go to plan' is definitely a 'from a certain point of view' statement. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kalnestk Oblast Fair enough. I only saw it once at the cinema and was never much inspired to see it again. Partly because Luke was riding high after Return of the Jedi, and given all the possible answers of what could’ve happened to him? We get:

1 hour ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

he betrayed his family, destroyed the trust of his sister and her husband, got all of his students killed and gave a major force user dark side power.

Eesh. I mean there’s ‘subverting expectations’ and then there’s whatever the fuck that is. 

Edited by DaveSumm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Definitely agree. 

I don't, and never have. Lucas had conveyed to Hamill the idea of an isolated Luke who wasn't a disillusioned pessimist. I think you can very easily square the circle of hopeful, heroic Luke with a Luke who stays put in one place while the rest of the galaxy is in flames, and you could certainly add pathos and complexities that would make Luke deeper.

Johnson wasn't interested in that. He was interested in the disillusioned Luke Skywalker, and so he decided to take his iconoclastic approach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My issue with Rian Johnson is how he handles dialogue. There are times in his movies, where it feels like the characters are talking to the audience and not each other. TLJ's biggest example of this is when Luke gives his "You don't need Luke Skywalker" monologue to Rey, though Rose's monologue about love, was pretty bad as well; quite literally as the villains are using a weapon of war and on the verge of killing the heroes in the background.

Edited by sifth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoiler

So, was Moff Gideon rescued by Mandalorians or did they abduct him so they could enforce their own justice? Also, given the Zeb cameo, are we going to get Sabine introduced here before the Ahsoka show?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...