Jaehaerys, Saera, and the Stinger

[Floki of the Ironborn]

I know Jae-hae is listed as one of the best kings in House Targaryen’s history, but good gods did the Saera storyline paint him in a bad light. I’m not saying that Saera was a victim, mind you: she was clearly a spoiled bully who took advantage of her position to abuse smallfolk. But there really is something profoundly unsettling and overly Freudian about how Jaehaerys handled things with the Ser Beesbury. He pretty much forced him into a trial by combat just for having consensual sex with his daughter, personally fought, and killed him all while making Saera watch. Like, what was that supposed to accomplish? Whose pride and honour was that really trying to fix? I don’t blame Saera for trying to get the hell away from him. And it looks like she did a great job for herself. She managed to avoid the Targaryen s***show and make it rich in Lys.

[Craving Peaches]

I personally think his advisors did more work than they got credit for and Jaehaerys was embellished by the Maesters writing about him and so on.

And yeah, I thought it was stupid when he claimed Beesbury 'spoiled' his daughter or whatever. If anything she spoiled herself...And you know he does have a responsibility to look after her too...

Saera wasn't a nice person but Jaehaerys was a poor father.

[James Steller]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's a really Freudian moment. Father forces daughter to watch him kill a man who had sex with her by impaling him in the face with his phallic weapon.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by James Steller

[GZ Bloodraven]

Stinger got cocky in front of the king; it's definitely weird and a bad parenting move and Freudian no doubt, but Braxton was basically openly taunting the Kingsguard and the King.

Edited March 9, 2023 by GZ Bloodraven

[Floki of the Ironborn]

4 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

Stinger got cocky in front of the king; it's definitely weird and a bad parenting move and Freudian no doubt, but Braxton was basically openly taunting the Kingsguard and the King.

I mean, what else was left for him? If he didn’t accept trial by combat, he was marked for life as a cripple. He was backed into a corner where Jaehaerys could personally kill him. 

[Alester Florent]

The punishment laid out for Ser Braxton does seem unnecessarily cruel, as Floki says, effectively forcing him to choose trial by combat, a situation moreover where he is doubtless uneasy because he's fighting the king himself. It's hard not to feel sorry for the guy: it seems like the king's anger at Saera was taken out on him. At least his death was, in the end, relatively quick.

Having said that, given that one of the great things about flails - indeed perhaps the only thing about them that makes them worth using over a morningstar or mace - is their unpredictability and ability to blow past guards (including shields) and inflict damage behind, it does seem that he used his weapon rather poorly in the ensuing duel if Jaehaerys was able to take every blow on his shield. If he'd picked a different weapon, or used it better, he might have been able to win that duel.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

52 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

The punishment laid out for Ser Braxton does seem unnecessarily cruel, as Floki says, effectively forcing him to choose trial by combat, a situation moreover where he is doubtless uneasy because he's fighting the king himself. It's hard not to feel sorry for the guy: it seems like the king's anger at Saera was taken out on him. At least his death was, in the end, relatively quick.

Having said that, given that one of the great things about flails - indeed perhaps the only thing about them that makes them worth using over a morningstar or mace - is their unpredictability and ability to blow past guards (including shields) and inflict damage behind, it does seem that he used his weapon rather poorly in the ensuing duel if Jaehaerys was able to take every blow on his shield. If he'd picked a different weapon, or used it better, he might have been able to win that duel.

That does raise a good question… what would have happened if Braxton won the duel?

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

That does raise a good question… what would have happened if Braxton won the duel?

Presumably then Aemon becomes King, and if he's not a dickhead then he acknowledges that his dad was an idiot for fighting a duel with some random knight, and the gods clearly wanted him to die. Braxton goes scott free, though he'd probably have to hightail it out of Westeros and lay low for a while. Saera presumably laughs her head off when Braxton kills her dad.

[Alester Florent]

Depends if Jaehaerys yields or not, I suppose. I can't imagine Braxton would be too keen to kill the king, even if he's legally justified in doing so, so if J sees the light and gives up when it's clear he's lost, that's presumably the end of that. But depending how douchey he's feeling he might try to fight on when it's a lost cause or even take advantage of Braxton's hesitancy to finish him off to spring an off-the-mat surprise attack like Gregor did on Oberyn.

If Braxton did kill him, presumably he's proven innocent of the primary charge and also exempted from any punishment for what happens during the duel (it being a judicial combat) and he's therefore free to go about his business... but as James Steller says, it would probably be wise for him to get out of town for a few years.

[Hedgeknight78]

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really think old Jae did it all wrong. He felt offended by the relationship between Saera and Stinger. Her daughter's feelings never mattered to her. If his daughter's honor was what really mattered, what he should have done was marry Saera and Braxton off, and send them to Honeyholt. In time they would both become Lord and Lady Beesbury, and Saera's children would inherit the title. Instead, Jaehaerys made a mess of the matter.

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