Just sacred trees? Or is there a meatier magic to the weirwoods?

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

The practice of FN is horrible, w/o question. And it’s something that the FM started, Andals didn’t abolish upon arriving, and Targs joined in gleefully. So my point remains since this would still keep them at a draw in terms of “evil practices”. With Valyrians still being a nation that was a massive enslaver of other peoples w/ the added “bonus” of full on sibling on sibling incest. 

I don't really disagree all too much, except that I wouldn't be too surprised if GRRM dropped some really disturbing shit about the ancient kings of winter, over and above what others were doing. Because they were at the top of the heirarchy, and cruelty and hardness seems to be baked into their reputation. Not guaranteed, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't know where the IB trail will lead, but there is a possibility that the Grey King lore comes not from mere First Men, but refugees from the failed Great Empire of the Dawn. Also, some of the oldest structures in Westeros (the First Keep of Winterfell, the base of the High Tower, possibly the Seastone Chair) have some strange connections either to Asshai or proto-Valyrian design. If these were Dawn Empire escapees turned reavers, they may have had some form of dragonrider blood magic going on well before the Valyrians, and partook in the awful stuff needed to activate that magic. But I dunno. It's up in the air at this point.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On 3/12/2023 at 12:27 PM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

@Evolett has pointed out that Renly makes for a poor fertility god, as his flowers come from Highgarden, and his virility for procreation is not a priority, and that's a fair point.

Great stuff as usual @Phylum of Alexandria  

Quick point. I disagree that Renly and his abundance of Green Man symbolism makes for a poor fertility god. His symbolism (horned lord, green man armor, rising from the dead, etc) suggests death and re-birth, which is Green Man symbolism in a nutshell. Any association with Highgarden links in Reach fertility, Garth the Gardener & Garth the Green. Furthermore, if we're talking weirwood reproduction (birth/ saplings etc) then the Horned Green Man (Renly/Garth. Garlan Tyrell (a Garth character) wore Renly's green armor in the re-birth battle scenario) is not only associated with death & re-birth, but is the only character in the series (through Garth the Green) known to have successfully planted a weirwood that is still thriving today. 

I'm sure I'm missing some other symbolism as well.

Anyhoo, enjoyed the thread, always great to read new ideas regarding weirwood & old gods magic. Good work. 

It's late and I'm sure I'm missing a tonne of important points and information, so I'm off to bed. I shall revisit for another read another time. 

Cool thread! 

Night. 

WiZZzzzz

[Phylum of Alexandria]

19 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Great stuff as usual @Phylum of Alexandria  

Quick point. I disagree that Renly and his abundance of Green Man symbolism makes for a poor fertility god. His symbolism (horned lord, green man armor, rising from the dead, etc) suggests death and re-birth, which is Green Man symbolism in a nutshell. Any association with Highgarden links in Reach fertility, Garth the Gardener & Garth the Green. Furthermore, if we're talking weirwood reproduction (birth/ saplings etc) then the Horned Green Man (Renly/Garth. Garlan Tyrell (a Garth character) wore Renly's green armor in the re-birth battle scenario) is not only associated with death & re-birth, but is the only character in the series (through Garth the Green) known to have successfully planted a weirwood that is still thriving today. 

I'm sure I'm missing some other symbolism as well.

Anyhoo, enjoyed the thread, always great to read new ideas regarding weirwood & old gods magic. Good work. 

It's late and I'm sure I'm missing a tonne of important points and information, so I'm off to bed. I shall revisit for another read another time. 

Thanks!

Yeah, I don't think I did proper justice to Evolett's thoughts in my brief summary there. It was a lengthy comment in a larger thread, one that happened to pick up from earlier discussions we'd had regarding Garth/Green Man symbolism in the story. She was specifically comparing Renly to his two brothers, all three of them distinct variations of the horned god as written by Gerald Gardner. Here is the link to that thread if you're interested: