Could Stannis be a Bastard?

[Craving Peaches]

So my good friend Corvo made a thread on how Catelyn could be a bastard. Though there was some evidence which was suspicious I think the overall conclusion the community came to was that Catelyn was not a bastard. In the same vein I have some evidence that Stannis could potentially be a bastard. This is because he is lacking a lot of Baratheon traits. Please note I did not come up with this idea, someone else suggested it ages ago on an old thread. I have no idea who or what thread.

1. Baratheons are known for their thick black hair, yet Stannis is going bald at only ~30 years of age. This is abnormal for the family as we see Robert still has fine hair and a beard, Renly has a full head of hair, we never hear about Stannis' supposed father being bald or any other Baratheon.
2. Baratheons are known for their muscular build yet Stannis is described as thin and wiry.
3. Baratheons are known for their jovial temprement as well as their angry one. Yet Stannis never expresses any jovial temprement. Nor does he get angry in the way other Baratheons do. He is just constantly sulking and moody.
4. Going by Robert Baratheons are supposed to be fertile, but Stannis only has one child after years of a marriage.

What other character do we know that is thin, bald, not jovial, is of the right age, and would have had access to Stannis' mother? That's right, Maester Cressen. Stannis' real father. The evidence is there in the text:

Quote

Maester Cressen blinked. Stannis, my lord, my sad sullen boy, son I never had, you must not do this, don't you know how I have cared for you, lived for you, loved you despite all?

What's this 'despite all' Cressen is talking about???

Evidence against and rebukes:

1. Stannis still has the black hair blue eyes of the Baratheons. The hair can easily be explained by hair dye. The eyes can be explained by genetics. We know that Stannis' mother was a member of House Estermont, who had previously married into the Baratheons anyway, so the genes could very well be there. Even if she didn't have blue eyes herself she could have been carrying them and Cressen could have had blue eyes or been carrying resulting in Stannis having blue eyes either because both parents had blue eyes or because the recessive genes lined up right.
2. Cressen refers to Stannis as one of Lord Steffon's sons multiple times. This is obviously so he believes it's true and never wants to spill the secret. Also the author doesn't want to spoil the secret.
3. Stannis' loss of hair, build etc. could all just be symptoms of stress. True...But then we see other stressed characters and they don't lose hair, it goes white...
4. The lack of children could be Selyse or it could be that Stannis only tries very infrequently. Possible.

Finally, how funny would it be if Stannis, the man constantly going on about how the throne is his by rights and it belongs to him by law and all that, was actually a bastard with no claim to the throne at all?

[Alester Florent]

As much as I'm up for anything that annoys the Stanstans... no, I don't think so.

It is funny that he is so unlike other recent Baratheons in temperament (which can't be wholly explained by his parents' deaths, as he was noted as gloomy before that). But that is probably just limited sample size.

[astarkchoice]

May you die in holy fire for ypur blasphamy

[Craving Peaches]

23 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

May you die in holy fire for ypur blasphamy

The light of the Seven shall protect me from the demon R'hlorr.

[sifth]

The real bastards are the friends we made along the way, lol

[astarkchoice]

No hes firm but fair

[Evolett]

Stannis illegitimate? Cressen certainly has fatherly thoughts towards Stannis but I doubt it. 

Renly is another matter though, if one wants to speculate on such a thing. Since Robert started sowing his oats rather early, Renly could be Robert's bastard son, brought up by the Baratheons as their own true-born son. Renly is the spitting image of the younger version of Robert. In comparison, we also have Gendry who is definitely Robert's son, who looks so much like Robert that Ned recognises him for a son of the king. The likeness between Renly and Gendry is also uncanny, since Brienne is also unsettled by Gendry's resemblance to Renly. 

So that might be a thing. It would explain why Robert granted Storm's End to Renly instead of to Stannis, who really was next in line to inherit the seat. 

[Corvo the Crow]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

So my good friend Corvo made a thread on how Catelyn could be a bastard. Though there was some evidence which was suspicious I think the overall conclusion the community came to was that Catelyn was not a bastard. In the same vein I have some evidence that Stannis could potentially be a bastard. This is because he is lacking a lot of Baratheon traits. Please note I did not come up with this idea, someone else suggested it ages ago on an old thread. I have no idea who or what thread.

1. Baratheons are known for their thick black hair, yet Stannis is going bald at only ~30 years of age. This is abnormal for the family as we see Robert still has fine hair and a beard, Renly has a full head of hair, we never hear about Stannis' supposed father being bald or any other Baratheon.
2. Baratheons are known for their muscular build yet Stannis is described as thin and wiry.
3. Baratheons are known for their jovial temprement as well as their angry one. Yet Stannis never expresses any jovial temprement. Nor does he get angry in the way other Baratheons do. He is just constantly sulking and moody.
4. Going by Robert Baratheons are supposed to be fertile, but Stannis only has one child after years of a marriage.

What other character do we know that is thin, bald, not jovial, is of the right age, and would have had access to Stannis' mother? That's right, Maester Cressen. Stannis' real father. The evidence is there in the text:

What's this 'despite all' Cressen is talking about???

Evidence against and rebukes:

1. Stannis still has the black hair blue eyes of the Baratheons. The hair can easily be explained by hair dye. The eyes can be explained by genetics. We know that Stannis' mother was a member of House Estermont, who had previously married into the Baratheons anyway, so the genes could very well be there. Even if she didn't have blue eyes herself she could have been carrying them and Cressen could have had blue eyes or been carrying resulting in Stannis having blue eyes either because both parents had blue eyes or because the recessive genes lined up right.
2. Cressen refers to Stannis as one of Lord Steffon's sons multiple times. This is obviously so he believes it's true and never wants to spill the secret. Also the author doesn't want to spoil the secret.
3. Stannis' loss of hair, build etc. could all just be symptoms of stress. True...But then we see other stressed characters and they don't lose hair, it goes white...
4. The lack of children could be Selyse or it could be that Stannis only tries very infrequently. Possible.

Finally, how funny would it be if Stannis, the man constantly going on about how the throne is his by rights and it belongs to him by law and all that, was actually a bastard with no claim to the throne at all?

Sweet Peaches, I think this may even explain his affinity to Jon, another bastard. But if Stannis is a bastard he is Lord Steffon's because he has the Baratheon look. I think maybe if Cassana Estermont had a child around the same time as Stannis' real mother but hers died, Steffon may have baby swapped, both babies looking like him. Cressen would of course be in on that secret.

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Sweet Peaches, I think this may even explain his affinity to Jon, another bastard. But if Stannis is a bastard he is Lord Steffon's because he has the Baratheon look.

This is true and works better. But then who is the mother?

[Corvo the Crow]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

This is true and works better. But then who is the mother?

Who constantly refers to Stannis as son? Guess Sarella wouldn't be the first women to got into the citadel!

[Universal Sword Donor]

Stannis isn't thin and wiry. Renly is described as lean and lithe though

Stannis ... was broad of shoulder and sinewy of limb, with a tightness to his face and flesh that spoke of leather cured in the sun until it was as tough as steel.

[Corvo the Crow]

6 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Stannis isn't thin and wiry. Renly is described as lean and lithe though

Stannis ... was broad of shoulder and sinewy of limb, with a tightness to his face and flesh that spoke of leather cured in the sun until it was as tough as steel.

So you mean to say is Renly is a bastard?

[Craving Peaches]

8 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Stannis ... was broad of shoulder and sinewy of limb, with a tightness to his face and flesh that spoke of leather cured in the sun until it was as tough as steel.

I thought sinewy was like wiry though. Internet says they are synonyms. And anyway I do think he is thin because he was described as having hollow cheeks, which makes it sound like he's not got much weight on him, at least that was how I interpreted it.

[Universal Sword Donor]

14 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I thought sinewy was like wiry though. Internet says they are synonyms. And anyway I do think he is thin because he was described as having hollow cheeks, which makes it sound like he's not got much weight on him, at least that was how I interpreted it.

Thats when hes not eating. Broad and sinewy basically just means hes ripped

[Curled Finger]

Oh gosh that was fun to read. 

[Craving Peaches]

4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Oh gosh that was fun to read. 

[GZ Bloodraven]

7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

What other character do we know that is thin, bald, not jovial, is of the right age, and would have had access to Stannis' mother? That's right, Maester Cressen. Stannis' real father. The evidence is there in the text:

Doesn't Cressen call the Baratheon kids "son" because he basically raised them after their parents died in a shipwreck (like Frozen)? Cressen may have hooked up with Cassana, who knows, but Stannis does look like a Baratheon. Maybe Cressen was Steffon's, like, second cousin and was also a Baratheon? Kind of stretching, but it would actually be great commentary about how the concept of bastardy is kind of stupid and degrading if the one who was most against it was a bastard. Does he just stop going for the throne at that point? Would be great human-heart conflict. 

[Corvo the Crow]

1 minute ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

Doesn't Cressen call the Baratheon kids "son" because he basically raised them after their parents died in a shipwreck (like Frozen)? Cressen may have hooked up with Cassana, who knows, but Stannis does look like a Baratheon. Maybe Cressen was Steffon's, like, second cousin and was also a Baratheon? Kind of stretching, but it would actually be great commentary about how the concept of bastardy is kind of stupid and degrading if the one who was most against it was a bastard. Does he just stop going for the throne at that point? Would be great human-heart conflict. 

Surely you mean Cressella hooked up with Steffon?