95th Academy Awards (OSCAR NIGHT): You're all feckin' boring!

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, maarsen said:

Did you know that a common slang term during the 30s in Hollywood for the director of a movie was 'the brother-in-law'?

I don't know what that means but it doesn't sound very nice. 

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Critics also slammed both films at the time of their releases. The former horrified many. A lot of the best films ever made were not initially successful both with critics and at the box office. 

When Dr. Strangelove came out, one commentator publicly accused Kubrick of consciously doing the work of the Soviets. "Moscow gold could not have bought a better something something", or some such.

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Fun fact: Jack Nicholson was the one that presented BP the year The French Connection won despite the fact he wasn't that big of a star yet because dozens of people refused for fear that A Clockwork Orange would have won and they would have their names associated with it. Mind you, TFC is still a great film, though not as good as A Clockwork Orange and The Last Picture Show.

ACO was also tied to some copycat violence in the UK. Whether that was real or an invention of the tabloids, the connection was made. 

2 hours ago, maarsen said:

Pauline Kael in particular disliked 2001. She did however go back and revise her opinion later and liked it a lot more.

That's pretty typical of Kubrick's films. They tended to be divisive at the time and didn't really get appreciated until after the fact. Dr. Strangelove, 2001 and ACO did better with younger audiences. I would bet you the academy voting was similarly divided along age lines. 

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Actually, 2001 was the biggest box office hit of 1968 in the US (counting re-releases, the 2nd at the time) and a Clockwork Orange the 7th.  But both were extremely divisive- as it happened with pretty much every Kubrick film, even the most popular and successful, who became more acclaimed over time

Maybe it was its budget, but 2001 didn't turn a profit until its re-release in '70 or '71 I think. 

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Box office isn't the subject though. A lot of critics didn't understand and/or like 2001 initially, but came around later. 

A lot of film makers were the same.

Edited March 17 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Ran]

7 hours ago, maarsen said:

stopped taking the Academy awards seriously back in the 70s when Stanley Kubrick lost with A Clockwork Orange, a movie people are still watching and discussing over 50 years later.

People are still watching and discussing The French Connection 50 years later. The Guardian did a great article for the 50th anniversary. It's a stone-cold classic of the era.

And The Last Picture Show was just as worthy to win, IMO. Incredible film from Bogdanovich. I'd personally pick it or Clockwork for that year, but The French Connection was absolutely in the conversation and has withstood the test of time.

And then _next_ year it was The Godfather. You had a real over-reaction to the Academy Awards, man. The 70s Academy was the golden age.

Edited March 17 by Ran

[maarsen]

Ran I agree that the 70s were a great era for films. I was there and loving it. I just don't think the critics, through no fault of their own, were as open to new ideas and concepts as someone like me who was also enjoying the fantastic SF that the era also produced. The teenager reading Dangerous Visions is not going to be satisfied with the mundane in books or film.

 

[Cas Stark]

A Clockwork Orange would be divisive even today, and probably would still not win best picture if it came out in 2022.  It's no Godfather.  

[Jaxom 1974]

5 hours ago, maarsen said:

Ran I agree that the 70s were a great era for films. I was there and loving it. I just don't think the critics, through no fault of their own, were as open to new ideas and concepts as someone like me who was also enjoying the fantastic SF that the era also produced. The teenager reading Dangerous Visions is not going to be satisfied with the mundane in books or film.

 

I think that's the thing about the 70s...that new crop of directors coming up...Led by Lucas, Scorsese, Spielberg, Coppola...add in the likes of Brooks, Fosse, and Kubrick who wanted to shake things up...and they forced Hollywood to change...but then there is that new crop of film critics coming into their own in the 70s who seemed to want to look at film thebway those directors did...Ebert in particular.  Butnalso Siskel, Reed, Maltin, and I know there were some others...

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Well, Ebert could get things spectacularly wrong, tho.

1968s Once Upon a Time in the West is a master piece. Ebert didn't rate that movie.

It was almost bust at the US Box office (merely earning its production cost), but literally ran for decades in cinemas in Europe.

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

A Clockwork Orange would be divisive even today,

especially, FTFY 

Can't believe the extent of half baked wokes and their intolerant cancel culture

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Talking about Once Upon a Time in the West.

Not even a single Oscar Nomination. That's (one of) the worst calls in their history.

[Ran]

Just now, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Talking about Once Upon a Time in the West.

Not even a single Oscar Nomination. That's (one of) the worst calls in their history.

No one was ready to contend with Henry Fonda as the villain.

[Jaxom 1974]

46 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Well, Ebert could get things spectacularly wrong, tho.

1968s Once Upon a Time in the West is a master piece. Ebert didn't rate that movie.

It was almost bust at the US Box office (merely earning its production cost), but literally ran for decades in cinemas in Europe.

Even when Ebert missed on something, he did it eloquently...

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

30 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Talking about Once Upon a Time in the West.

Not even a single Oscar Nomination. That's (one of) the worst calls in their history.

Too pulp and too foreign. 'Don't want one o' them swarthy fer-ners getting their mitts on one of our precious awards, do ya?

And also too early. If that had come out a few years later (after Easy Rider) it might have been received differently by the academy.

[Tywin et al.]

47 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Talking about Once Upon a Time in the West.

Not even a single Oscar Nomination. That's (one of) the worst calls in their history.

It's funny, I love the movie and Once Upon a Time in America, but for the longest time had no idea they were part of an unconnected trilogy. The middle film (which has like three different names) had to be one of the most violent films at the time it was released.

[DireWolfSpirit]

On 3/17/2023 at 2:16 PM, Tywin et al. said:

The middle film (which has like three different names) had to be one of the most violent films at the time it was released.

"Duck you Sucker", aka "Fistful of Dynamite" are two of the names. Am watching it this morning lol.

[Tywin et al.]

3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

"Duck you Sucker", aka "Fistful of Dynamite" are two of the names. Am watching it this morning lol.

It was also at one point called Once Upon a Time in Revolution, or something close to it.

I learned like a week or two ago that at the time Eastwood began to make Westerns with Leone that there were so many official and unofficial rules about what you could show in Westerns. Leone apparently didn’t really know that and Eastwood decided not to tell him. Thank god for that decision.

[DireWolfSpirit]

3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Am watching it this morning lol.

It was literally 5 minute intervals of blowing shit up followed by firing squads, rinse, repeat.

Loved it

[Tywin et al.]

52 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

It was literally 5 minute intervals of blowing shit up followed by firing squads, rinse, repeat.

Loved it

The mass grave scene is chilling as hell before the camera pans out and you see rows and rows of them.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

It was also at one point called Once Upon a Time in Revolution, or something close to it.

I learned like a week or two ago that at the time Eastwood began to make Westerns with Leone that there were so many official and unofficial rules about what you could show in Westerns. Leone apparently didn’t really know that and Eastwood decided not to tell him. Thank god for that decision.

Looking at Leone's wikipedia page, its clear that he never got any love from the academy. 

I bet there were fans of the genre back in the day who absolutely hated those films.

[Winterfell is Burning]

One also has to keep in mind that Once Upon in America was released in a butchered version in American cinemas, who only saw Leone's cut later.

 

[Tywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Looking at Leone's wikipedia page, its clear that he never got any love from the academy. 

I bet there were fans of the genre back in the day who absolutely hated those films.

Like I said before, often times artists that were overlooked in their day tower over their contemporaries in death.

6 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

One also has to keep in mind that Once Upon in America was released in a butchered version in American cinemas, who only saw Leone's cut later.

It has to be one of the biggest discrepancies between two cuts of a film. Iirc, the American version was over an hour shorter, they made the film linear which it was never intended to be and cut out a ton of the youth scenes.

[polishgenius]

8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I bet there were fans of the genre back in the day who absolutely hated those films.

Fistful of Dollars got absolutely crucified in the press on release.

 

 

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I learned like a week or two ago that at the time Eastwood began to make Westerns with Leone that there were so many official and unofficial rules about what you could show in Westerns. Leone apparently didn’t really know that and Eastwood decided not to tell him. Thank god for that decision.

 

To be fair, I'm not sure it would have mattered if he had. Fistful of Dollars wasn't made in the American system, I'm not sure it had American money involved, and I'm not sure it was really made for Americans either, at the time. Leone didn't need to care about American studio rules (since I'm assuming that's what they were).