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R+L=J, Robb’s Will, Jon’s Resurrection, and the Timing


Maegor_the_Cool

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Both his parentage & Robb’s Will will be a huge shock to him. And that’s before we even talk about his possible resurrection. I know there are some that think Jon isn’t dead yet, but I disagree. The wounds he sustained, and the way they were described scream fatal. And as we know, when George brings someone back, the process of dying and resurrecting are traumatic. Which trauma changes those who have been revived, and I believe it will change Jon. 
 

We see with Lady Stoneheart that her feelings of hate & anger are enhanced by it. I imagine Jon feels betrayed and angry. And he’ll change accordingly. Imagine him then finding out that he is Robb’s Heir, something he has always wanted. The. finding out his father, who he trusted more than anyone in the world, lied to him his entire life. Such feelings of betrayal and anger could be magnified. In this scenario I could totally see Jon leaving the NW, using the “dead” loophole, and going to claim Winterfell in a fit of anger. 

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Nah, he’s not dead. There’s nothing in the description of the stabbing that “screams faltal”. LSH is an altogether different case, since she’d been dead 3 days by the time she was reanimated. Robb’s will is going to have a positive impact, since it brings Jon into the family in a way he’d never been before, besides being a bittersweet reminder of his love for his brother and the acknowledgment that Robb loved him just as much. 
As to Ned, I think he will be angry initially, but will come to understand why Ned did what he did; and again it will reinforce his love for his father, the man who raised him, not the biological one. 
So while I agree that at first he’ll have a whole lot to digest, ultimately he won’t be angry w/ Ned. 

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Jon's fans are fantasizing and attempting to rewrite the story.  Jon is a bastard.  He was killed when his own men got sick of his antics and assassinated him.  Robb's will is not going to change any of that.  Besides, Robb was a total failure in his campaign.  Robb lost the North, his wolf, and his head.  People will not respect his will.  The only one in the North who has the power to resurrect, if you can call it that, are the White Walkers.  They will be the ones to resurrect Jon.  The North is very backwards but even they will not accept a wight as their leader.  

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3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Nah, he’s not dead. There’s nothing in the description of the stabbing that “screams faltal”. LSH is an altogether different case, since she’d been dead 3 days by the time she was reanimated. Robb’s will is going to have a positive impact, since it brings Jon into the family in a way he’d never been before, besides being a bittersweet reminder of his love for his brother and the acknowledgment that Robb loved him just as much. 
As to Ned, I think he will be angry initially, but will come to understand why Ned did what he did; and again it will reinforce his love for his father, the man who raised him, not the biological one. 
So while I agree that at first he’ll have a whole lot to digest, ultimately he won’t be angry w/ Ned. 

To me, a neck wound, where the blood is flowing through his fingers, indicates a deep cut. Deep cuts on the throat are usually fatal

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4 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Jon's fans are fantasizing and attempting to rewrite the story.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no.  Anyone who has actually read the book, unless for some reason they are acting in bad faith, would not claim such rubbish as 'Jon Snow betrayed Westeros', 'The North is a backwards and savage land', 'Bowen is a saviour' etc. These claims are stupid, tiresome, never have any quotes to back them up, are repeated ad nauseum despite multiple people rebuking them, whom are all conveniently ignored when the next session of Jon hate comes around.

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37 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no.  Anyone who has actually read the book, unless for some reason they are acting in bad faith, would not claim such rubbish as 'Jon Snow betrayed Westeros', 'The North is a backwards and savage land', 'Bowen is a saviour' etc. These claims are stupid, tiresome, never have any quotes to back them up, are repeated ad nauseum despite multiple people rebuking them, whom are all conveniently ignored when the next session of Jon hate comes around.

I was trying to ignore them

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5 hours ago, Lord_Tywin_Lannister said:

To me, a neck wound, where the blood is flowing through his fingers, indicates a deep cut. Deep cuts on the throat are usually fatal

“Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun howled again and gave Ser Patrek’s other arm a twist and pull. It tore loose from his shoulder with a spray of bright red blood. Like a child pulling petals off a daisy, thought Jon. “Leathers, talk to him, calm him. The Old Tongue, he understands the Old Tongue. Keep back, the rest of you. Put away your steel, we’re scaring him.” Couldn’t they see the giant had been cut? Jon had to put an end to this or more men would die. They had no idea of Wun Wun’s strength. A horn, I need a horn. He saw the glint of steel, turned toward it. “No blades!” he screamed. “Wick, put that knife …”

   … away, he meant to say. When Wick Whittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers. “Why?”

Wick’s blade barely grazes the skin. No major vessels are that superficial. As to blood “welling”, that’s just a way to describe bleeding in general, and any neck and head wound bleed w/o it meaning they’re fatal. 
We’ll find out one day. 

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22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

“Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun howled again and gave Ser Patrek’s other arm a twist and pull. It tore loose from his shoulder with a spray of bright red blood. Like a child pulling petals off a daisy, thought Jon. “Leathers, talk to him, calm him. The Old Tongue, he understands the Old Tongue. Keep back, the rest of you. Put away your steel, we’re scaring him.” Couldn’t they see the giant had been cut? Jon had to put an end to this or more men would die. They had no idea of Wun Wun’s strength. A horn, I need a horn. He saw the glint of steel, turned toward it. “No blades!” he screamed. “Wick, put that knife …”

   … away, he meant to say. When Wick Whittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers. “Why?”

Wick’s blade barely grazes the skin. No major vessels are that superficial. As to blood “welling”, that’s just a way to describe bleeding in general, and any neck and head wound bleed w/o it meaning they’re fatal. 
We’ll find out one day. 

Exactly!

Hit my forehead against a pointed hook of a cd-rack once when misjudging lowering myself to select a cd. WTF! I was bleeding enormously, all over my face, on the floor dripping, my whole hand slick, as I made for the medicine cabinet. But the cut was no more than 2 mm in length, superficial, and didn't need any stitching. Not deadly at all, not life threatening, not even a scar. Head and neck just bleed a lot, because a lot of blood is passing through ... because brains need blood.

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46 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Exactly!

Hit my forehead against a pointed hook of a cd-rack once when misjudging lowering myself to select a cd. WTF! I was bleeding enormously, all over my face, on the floor dripping, my whole hand slick, as I made for the medicine cabinet. But the cut was no more than 2 mm in length, superficial, and didn't need any stitching. Not deadly at all, not life threatening, not even a scar. Head and neck just bleed a lot, because a lot of blood is passing through ... because brains need blood.

Ouch! 
But yeah, extremities tend to be natural bleeders and head and neck are the worst. As any kid who’s ever tripped and landed on their chin or hit their forehead will know. I had a very minor cut on my upper lip and the bleeding was slasher film level; blood didn’t “well”, it squirted! What a mess. :lol:

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8 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Jon's fans are fantasizing and attempting to rewrite the story.  Jon is a bastard.  He was killed when his own men got sick of his antics and assassinated him.  Robb's will is not going to change any of that.  Besides, Robb was a total failure in his campaign.  Robb lost the North, his wolf, and his head.  People will not respect his will.  The only one in the North who has the power to resurrect, if you can call it that, are the White Walkers.  They will be the ones to resurrect Jon.  The North is very backwards but even they will not accept a wight as their leader.  

Your turn to draw the “Jon Snow has committed every sin we have a name for” post, I see. 

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Quote

"I would swear that wolf of his is keeping the boy alive. The creature is outside his window day and night, howling. Every time they chase it away, it returns. The maester said they closed the window once, to shut out the noise, and Bran seemed to weaken. When they opened it again, his heart beat stronger."

The queen shuddered. "There is something unnatural about those animals," she said. 

Guess who else has a direwolf that can sustain his life beyond natural limits.

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I may be a minority of one on this question, but I don't think we can assume that Robb named Jon as his heir.

In ASOS 45, Robb and his mother had an argument about who he should name. Then, some days later, Robb announced that he had made his decision, and he wanted some other lords to witness it.. and then the chapter ended, without actually revealing what he decided.

That looks to me like a setup for a surprise later on. Also, if Robb did choose Jon, then the scene describing the argument seems to have no purpose in the story.

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6 hours ago, Aebram said:

I may be a minority of one on this question, but I don't think we can assume that Robb named Jon as his heir.

I agree. It could be Jon, and this would totally make sense, but the way chapter is written leaves me with some doubts. I think we are supposed to assume it is Jon straight away, but there might be a surprise coming.  I could be completely wrong, of course.

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7 hours ago, Aebram said:

That looks to me like a setup for a surprise later on. Also, if Robb did choose Jon, then the scene describing the argument seems to have no purpose in the story.

The argument serves the purpose to explain why he skipped Arya and Sansa

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7 hours ago, Aebram said:

Also, if Robb did choose Jon, then the scene describing the argument seems to have no purpose in the story.

Just now, sweetsunray said:

The argument serves the purpose to explain why he skipped Arya and Sansa

Yeah, I think the argument still has a purpose of Robb choses Jon. If there's no argument and then Robb just announces he has chosen an heir it could be anyone. The argument is supposed to clue us in.

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13 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yeah, I think the argument still has a purpose of Robb choses Jon. If there's no argument and then Robb just announces he has chosen an heir it could be anyone. The argument is supposed to clue us in.

Exactly. And if Robb announces to everyone else he has chosen his heir and has everyone sign it and George reveals it only then and there to the reader that it's Jon, then we wouldn't accept Cat just accepting it without an argument. The alternative is to have Cat argue with Robb in front of witnesses. Which is just worse and horrible a choice before the RW.

It's in character for Cat to argue against it. George has to explain why not Arya or Sansa. But George also doesn't want Robb's surviving lords to know that his mother disagreed with Robb's choice. As far as Glover, Edmure, Maege, the Greatjon and Mallister are concerned there never was an argument on Robb's heir.

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12 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

The argument serves the purpose to explain why he skipped Arya and Sansa

This. And it creates the conflict w/ Cat where he decides to send her away to Seaguard. 

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3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Exactly. And if Robb announces to everyone else he has chosen his heir and has everyone sign it and George reveals it only then and there to the reader that it's Jon, then we wouldn't accept Cat just accepting it without an argument. The alternative is to have Cat argue with Robb in front of witnesses. Which is just worse and horrible a choice before the RW.

It's in character for Cat to argue against it. George has to explain why not Ary or Sansa. But George also doesn't want Robb's surviving lords to know that his mother disagreed with Robb's choice.

In regards to Sansa and Arya…  I find it interesting that while Robb and Cat talk about both girls when discussing the issue earlier, when Robb presents his will to the Greatjon, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover, Jason Mallister and Edmure, he talks about his brothers and Sansa but never mentions Arya. I’ve often wondered if he added her in some fashion to the will. Not b/c he thinks she’s alive but more as a small gesture to appease Cat.

“I left my wife at Riverrun. I want my mother elsewhere. If you keep all your treasures in one purse, you only make it easier for those who would rob you. After the wedding, you shall go to Seagard, that is my royal command.” Robb stood, and as quick as that, her fate was settled. He picked up a sheet of parchment. “One more matter. Lord Balon has left chaos in his wake, we hope. I would not do the same. Yet I have no son as yet, my brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I’ve thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision.
A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated. She could only hope that the trap he’d planned for Moat Cailin worked as well as the one in which he’d just caught her.”

 

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25 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

In regards to Sansa and Arya…  I find it interesting that while Robb and Cat talk about both girls when discussing the issue earlier, when Robb presents his will to the Greatjon, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover, Jason Mallister and Edmure, he talks about his brothers and Sansa but never mentions Arya. I’ve often wondered if he added her in some fashion to the will. Not b/c he thinks she’s alive but more as a small gesture to appease Cat.

I agree it's possible he added some provisional about Arya, to appease his mother. He believed her dead, so the provision wouldn't change a thing in his eyes. Explains why LS's focus is on finding Arya (Crossroads set up, asking the men that were hanged), despite the fact that she would know Sansa fled KL during Joffrey's wedding. She wouldn't just be looking for a daughter, but the sole potential child she believes she can crown to prevent Jon being proclaimed KitN. If she was solely looking for her daughters for their survival sake, she would have people questioned about both, as both are "missing".

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