csuszka1948 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 On 3/26/2023 at 2:55 PM, $erPounce said: I am going to express what will probably become a very unpopular opinion here. I know there is great disdain here for A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. Apparently people consider anything that doesn't push the plot forward as "filler." Those books are certainly not without flaws, but I have a hard time taking seriously the people who argue that entire chapters should be cut. Those chapters are in service of character development and atmosphere and are certainly not useless I'm going to make no secret of it: I love FeastDance. George was always interested in exploring the human condition in ASOIAF, and that aspect became increasingly prominent. With FeastDance, George decided to emphasize the human aspect rather than plot. Personally, I think that's the right decision, because characters are pretty much what George is best at. But I am aware that people generally have different expectations than me for books within the fantasy genre. I remember back in 2015, many book fans thought the decision not to accurately adapt FeastDance would save the show from demise. Although book readers were generally dissatisfied with some decisions such as the deaths of Stannis and Barristan (which happened in very illogical circumstances) - it seemed that the vast majority of book readers nevertheless overwhelmingly defended David and Dan's decision to "adapt" those two books in just ten episodes. I know it's not realistic that everything from FeastDance would be adapted into the show. Anyway, subplots were going to be lost, characters scrapped or combined and so on. But D&D didn't even try. The essence of these books was completely lost and character arcs for the characters became practically non-existent. The storylines no longer made sense because logic was thrown overboard. D&D was no longer trying to be consistent and coherent. Season 5 and season 6 still have a few moments in common with the books and here and there is still a lost line of dialogue from the books, but the original context is completely lost. D&D totally failed to consider the impact and consequences of their adaptional decisions. They had no idea what to do with the characters after they decided to eliminate their storylines from the books. Despite their attempts to streamline FeastDance, this did not result in better pacing than these books. In fact, D&D tend to add extra padding to most storylines (in an attempt to stretch them for 10 episodes and save the cliffhangers for the last episode). Result is a slower pacing for the show, but unlike FeastDance, that is not used for character development and other important things. That of the large amount of padding is most noticeable in season 6, in which very little happens before the last two episodes. Examples: Arya's storyline for the season has three episodes in which she is beaten with a stick as a blind person and later, for a few episodes, she is mostly a passive spectator for a play. Tyrion spends the first half of the season making jokes more than governing Meereen. Characters are unchanging and extremely passive, the situations from the books became far too oversimplified so there was no longer any depth. Despite all that time for those various storylines, the writers/showrunners didn't do anything useful with them. I consider the praise fans gave D&D for "trimming the fat off FeastDance" to be completely undeserved. After all, what they did was remove all the depth from FeastDance and replace it with empty air. The main problem is that FeastDance just lacks payoff and most of the story arcs do not reach a proper conclusion. AGOT ends with Ned's execution and the birth of dragons; ACOK with the Battle of Blackwater and the fall of Winterfell; ASOS with the weddings, Tyrion's escape, Dany taking Meereen, Stannis saving the Wall and Jon becoming Lord Commander. In contrast, FeastDance only has a proper conclusion (payoff) for the character arcs of Cersei, Jon and (arguably) Dany, while the Battle of Ice and the Battle of Fire - which by all rights should have taken place in ADWD - and the ending of the 'missions' of Jaime&Brienne and Davos are all placed to AWOW. If those (even if only the 2 large battles) were wrapped up in ADWD, I think there would be much less complaining. There are also smaller problems which come from the 'overcomplication' of the plot. Feast lacks most of the loved POV characters and both novels contain a huge number of chapters which simply involve traveling and character paths diverging from each other, and an incredible number of new POV characters are introduced (3 for Dorne and 3 for the Greyjoys alone, when the previous books only introduced 2 new POV characters each). In AGOT an event like the crowning of Renly and in ACOK an event like the Battle of Oxcross happened off-screen, while in AFFC and ADWD every somewhat significant battle involves at least 1 POV character (such as Deepwood Motte). This 'overcomplication' of the plot is part of the reason why no new books have been released for 12 years. If GRRM had already released 2 subsequent books and was writing the 8th and final book, much less people would be complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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