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The Theft of Ice


Canon Claude
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6 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

The old bear took it with him to use in battle not left behind which hints the northerners use theirs.

 

The real question would be why poor houses woulnt accept a.shitload of lannsiter gold

Hrm, can you give me a citation on when Jeor actually used Longclaw in battle himself?  I'd like it for my own reference is all.  I collect these stupid things and don't have that one. 

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26 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Hrm, can you give me a citation on when Jeor actually used Longclaw in battle himself?  I'd like it for my own reference is all.  I collect these stupid things and don't have that one. 

I cant imagine itd be sent north where theres danger and a good chance of being lost in the vast snowdrifts  if used  ,  to be a ceremonial sword  in a place full of ex thieves .....when it could stay safe in the family home and sit idle there!

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37 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

The real question would be why poor houses woulnt accept a.shitload of lannsiter gold

Tywin is so shady and cruel that he would think he owned the House now, and treat them as his lowly servants, are my thoughts on this.  Better to be poor and holding on to the family heirloom, than being bought by Tywin.   I wouldn't sell a donkey to Tywin, donks are cool and Tywin is cruel. 

Edited by LongRider
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4 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

I cant imagine itd be sent north where theres danger and a good chance of being lost in the vast snowdrifts  if used  ,  to be a ceremonial sword  in a place full of ex thieves .....when it could stay safe in the family home and sit idle there!

Of all the named VS swords Longclaw is most interesting.  We see it more than any of them and know so little about it.  Very mysterious blade with an excruciatingly mysterious history.  I suspect there is a reason Maege sent Longclaw to the Wall rather than keep it in the family.  It's not like those badass Mormont women couldn't and wouldn't be able to use it.  No, I suspect Longclaw belongs at the Wall, as all the named VS swords do, but this one most particularly.  

That Mormont changes the hilt and pommel from a bear to a wolf is also interesting.  We know Jeor greatly desires for Jorah to come home and join the Watch in order to restore his honor.  Not necessarily Mormont honor it would seem.  Curious that.  Somewhere along the line Longclaw has become a Nights Watch sword despite its nifty new adornments.  

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11 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Tywin is so shady and cruel that he would think he owned the House now, and treat them as his lowly servants, are my thoughts on this.  Better to be poor and holding on to the family heirloom, than being bought by Tywin.   I wouldn't sell a donkey to Tywin, donks are cool and Tywin is cruel. 

Further, you could go to some stupid meeting in shabby clothes and still wear a shit eating grin along with a cool sword Tywin didn't have!  

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5 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Tywin is so shady and cruel that he would think he owned the House now, and treat them as his lowly servants, are my thoughts on this.  Better to be poor and holding on to the family heirloom, than being bought by Tywin.   I wouldn't sell a donkey to Tywin, donks are cool and Tywin is cruel. 

Youd wonder why he didnt get his clegane savages to take one from the defeated ironborn

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4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Of all the named VS swords Longclaw is most interesting.  We see it more than any of them and know so little about it.  Very mysterious blade with an excruciatingly mysterious history.  I suspect there is a reason Maege sent Longclaw to the Wall rather than keep it in the family.  It's not like those badass Mormont women couldn't and wouldn't be able to use it.  No, I suspect Longclaw belongs at the Wall, as all the named VS swords do, but this one most particularly.  

That Mormont changes the hilt and pommel from a bear to a wolf is also interesting.  We know Jeor greatly desires for Jorah to come home and join the Watch in order to restore his honor.  Not necessarily Mormont honor it would seem.  Curious that.  Somewhere along the line Longclaw has become a Nights Watch sword despite its nifty new adornments.  

Id imagine its the simple fact that jeor may get more use out of if killing wildlings, any extra advantage is good.

Yeah plus its a big ass sword....practice will help a skinny lordling like jon grow into the sorta strong mofo the watch needs so jeor picked a good gift for him!

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Friendly reminder that the Valyrian Steel Sword Ice may just be a stand in, or replacement, for some older weapon of House Stark.

She could see the rippling deep within the steel, where the metal had been folded back on itself a hundred times in the forging. Catelyn had no love for swords, but she could not deny that Ice had its own beauty. It had been forged in Valyria, before the Doom had come to the old Freehold, when the ironsmiths had worked their metal with spells as well as hammers. Four hundred years old it was, and as sharp as the day it was forged. The name it bore was older still, a legacy from the age of heroes, when the Starks were Kings in the North.

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn I

One might argue that the breaking of the Valyrian Steel Sword Ice represents the breaking of the Valyrian rule of House Stark, and the return of the Kings in the North.

Edited by Mourning Star
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4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

One might argue that the breaking of the Valyrian Steel Sword Ice represents the breaking of the Valyrian rule of House Stark, and the return of the Kings in the North.

And now Jon Snow has an ancestral VS sword from another old Northern House gifted to him, very interesting.

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15 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

You'd think that would have had higher consequences than it did. Valyrian Steel blades are basically priceless, and they are often ancient heirlooms which are closely associated with their respective houses. 

Tywin had a lot of nerve to not only steal Ice for himself, but also melt it down to make two swords. That sets a very  dangerous precedent for any house moving forward. Imagine if the Daynes of Starfall had been in Eddard's position. Would Tywin have stolen Dawn and done the same? The backlash would have been incredible, especially from any house with their own Valyrian Steel blades to protect. No amount of gold that Tywin had offered was enough for any house to part with their blades. The theft of one of these blades should have been high scandal, no?

The Starks lost to the Lannisters.  Eddard gave a public confession to treason.  Jon is now a known traitor in the north.  Sansa is implicated in the death of Joffrey.  I don't think many people are offended when Tywin took and melted Ice.  The Starks are considered rebels and traitors.  

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What consequence do you expect? It wasn’t theft. It’s a victory trophy for the Lannisters. That’s how people see it.

A writ of attainder was signed and it took away everything from the poor Starks. The kids deserve better but Jon, Robb, and Sansa aren’t blameless in the Stark fall.  

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Legally speaking Joffrey was entitled to take Ice, but I suspect a lot of houses would think what Tywin did with it - melting it down and having it completely remade, and dying the new swords red into the bargain - was rather tacky and vulgar.

The question that comes to my mind is whether anyone actually knows that Widow's Wail is made from Ice. Did Tywin announce it when he gave Joffrey the sword? I can't remember. And Oathkeeper doesn't really seem to be public knowledge.

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39 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

Legally speaking Joffrey was entitled to take Ice, but I suspect a lot of houses would think what Tywin did with it - melting it down and having it completely remade, and dying the new swords red into the bargain - was rather tacky and vulgar.

The question that comes to my mind is whether anyone actually knows that Widow's Wail is made from Ice. Did Tywin announce it when he gave Joffrey the sword? I can't remember. And Oathkeeper doesn't really seem to be public knowledge.

The north may care but the people in the other parts of the kingdom would not care.  They know the Starks for rebels.

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2 hours ago, The Commentator said:

What consequence do you expect? It wasn’t theft. It’s a victory trophy for the Lannisters. That’s how people see it.

A writ of attainder was signed and it took away everything from the poor Starks. The kids deserve better but Jon, Robb, and Sansa aren’t blameless in the Stark fall.  

Then why did the Dornish return Blackfyre to House Targaryen after they killed Daeron I? They could have just kept it for themselves, by that logic.

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8 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Then why did the Dornish return Blackfyre to House Targaryen after they killed Daeron I? They could have just kept it for themselves, by that logic.

Don't you understand? The Targaryens are special godlike beings, so the same rules that apply to everyone else conveniently don't apply to them. Now those evil Starks on the other hand...

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4 hours ago, The Commentator said:

What consequence do you expect?

Long term?

Ravens to bring news, words darker than their wings, the ruin of their House, the death of their kin, disgrace and desolation.

But I jest, once you behead Ned, worrying about pissing people off over a sword is sort of silly.

5 hours ago, LongRider said:

And now Jon Snow has an ancestral VS sword from another old Northern House gifted to him, very interesting.

I think the distinction I would make here is that the sword was given to Jon as a reward for service, rather than inheritance, for merit rather than blood right.

Edited by Mourning Star
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