Jump to content

Aegon V was an idiot for letting Bloodraven take Dark Sister


James Steller

Recommended Posts

Just now, Curled Finger said:

Perhaps Brynden Rivers had no design on the Iron Throne for himself and was only a loyal servant of the Targaryen royal family?

Don't be crazy. He's weird and he's only got one eye. And he's a bastard: we know they can't be trusted. He must be up to something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Alester Florent said:

Don't be crazy. He's weird and he's only got one eye. And he's a bastard: we know they can't be trusted. He must be up to something.

OK then, he was only waiting for Aegon to become king so he could retire...to a nice cabin in The Gift! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

Yeah, I just think it's odd. if indeed they were. Maekar became king in 221 and Daeron died in 251. Is it really credible that three villains whose names nobody even knows were active for so long? It seems almost more likely that Aelora had already been passed over (whether due to sex or mental capacity) and her death happened much later, during Maekar or Aegon's reign.

This might be an authorial oversight.

It's possible. I'm going largely from memory, asearchoficeandfire, and the wiki. Was Aelora one of the heirs in the paragraph below? I thought so at first, but must admit it isn't very clear.

King Aerys sat the Iron Throne for the better part of two more years, before dying in 221 AC of natural causes.
In the course of that reign, His Grace had recognized a series of heirs, though none were children of his body; Aerys died without issue, his marriage still unconsummated. His brother Rhaegel, third son of Daeron the Good, had predeceased him, choking to death upon a lamprey pie in 215 AC during a feast. Rhaegel's son, Aelor, then became the new Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne, only to die two years after, slain in a grotesque mishap by the hand of his own twin sister and wife, Aelora, under circumstances that left her mad with grief. (Sadly, Aelora eventually took her own life after being attacked at a masked ball by three men known to history as the Rat, the Hawk, and the Pig.)
The last of the heirs Aerys recognized before his death would be the one to succeed him to the throne: the king's sole surviving brother, Prince Maekar.

Personally I think it's more likely that the The Rat, the Hawk, and the Pig had a powerful benefactor, and were only brought to battle after that benefactor had been exiled to the Wall.

But we know very little about these events, not even where the rebellion took place.

Oddly enough, the rebellion took place in 251, shortly before Bloodraven's disappearance from the Wall after serving as Lord Commander for 13 years.

I wouldn't be surprised by a direct connection.

1 hour ago, Alester Florent said:

Do we know whether he even put himself forward? Surely that was his big chance.

So, surprise, I have a theory about that.

When King Maekar died in battle in 233 AC, whilst leading his army against a rebellious lord on the Dornish Marches, considerable confusion arose as to the succession. Rather than risk another Dance of the Dragons, the King's Hand, Bloodraven, elected to call a Great Council to decide the matter.

In 233 AC, hundred of lords great and small assembled in King's Landing. With both of Maekar's elder sons deceased, there were four possible claimants. The Great Council dismissed Prince Daeron's sweet but simple-minded daughter Vaella immediately. Only a few spoke up for Aerion Brightflame's son Maegor; an infant king would have meant a long, contentious regency, and there were also fears that the boy might have inherited his father's cruelty and madness. Prince Aegon was the obvious choice, but some lords distrusted him as well, for his wanderings with his hedge knight had left him "half a peasant," according to many. Enough hated him, in fact, that an effort was made to determine whether his elder brother Maester Aemon might be released from his vows, but Aemon refused, and nothing came of it.

Even as the Great Council was debating, however, another claimant appeared in King's Landing: none other than Aenys Blackfyre, the fifth of the Black Dragon's seven sons. When the Great Council had first been announced, Aenys had written from exile in Tyrosh, putting forward his case in the hope that his words might win him the Iron Throne that his forebears had thrice failed to win with their swords. Bloodraven, the King's Hand, had responded by offering him a safe conduct, so the pretender might come to King's Landing and present his claim in person.

Unwisely, Aenys accepted. Yet hardly had he entered the city when the gold cloaks seized hold of him and dragged him to the Red Keep, where his head was struck off forthwith and presented to the lords of the Great Council, as a warning to any who might still have Blackfyre sympathies.

Soon thereafter, the "Prince Who Was An Egg" was chosen by a majority of the Great Council. The fourth son of a fourth son, Aegon V would become widely known as Aegon the Unlikely for having stood so far out of the succession in his youth.

Bloodraven called the council.

The text says four possible claimants, and I think this is the trick. A claimant has to make a claim, and as we see with Aenys in the next paragraph, they can't just be theoretical possibilities, since he's out there at the time and just hasn't shown up to make a claim yet.

I think Aemon is listed here as a red herring. An effort was made to free him of his vows, but he refused, and quietly.

"That was the year of the Great Council," he said. "The lords passed over Prince Aerion's infant son and Prince Daeron's daughter and gave the crown to Aegon."
"Yes and no. First they offered it, quietly, to Aemon. And quietly he refused.

Aemon was not truly one of the claimants. I think the fourth claimant was Bloodraven himself.

I think all Bloodraven's scheming was undone by the unlikeliest of princes.

If Bloodraven had been truly loyal to House Targaryen and content to be Hand, and rule in all but name, he would have simply crowned the "rightful" heir, Maegor. No need to call a council at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Perhaps Brynden Rivers had no design on the Iron Throne for himself and was only a loyal servant of the Targaryen royal family?

Loyal to the Targs but also fully committed to a greater purpose perhaps? 
 

I would rather prophecies in general were a sort of red herring. As in, someone hears/learns of a prophecy, fully believe in it and end up causing it to come true. I don’t know how Martin will deal with this, I don’t know if he’s going to make them real instead of self-fulfilling prophecies, which would be more interesting imo. But either way, we know several characters knew of a prophecy or believed in one or were told one or whatever. We also know Rhaegar either read something or was told something and started to try to learn more (I’m not going to say he was obsessed with this b/c we simply don’t know enough; it’s certainly possible but in no way a given). Bloodraven went to the Wall a long time before Rhaegar was born, but what are the odds that, if there was a prophecy about the Others, that he wouldn’t know about it? Zero imo. 
I think ending up at the Wall was exactly what he intended. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean the other thing here is that all the actual Targ kings clearly trusted Bloodraven. They knew much more about what was going on than we do, and if Daeron, Aerys or Maekar or Aegon thought that Bloodraven was responsible for bumping off their brothers, grandchildren, nephews, children, etc. on the basis of some sort of secret agenda they had plenty of opportunity to do something about it, whether by sacking him or in Aegon's case just chopping his head off. None of them did. 

For me the most obvious explanation remains the correct one, and I also think it's the most interesting: that Bloodraven really was fanatically loyal to the Targaryen dynasty (which is not to say, as kissdbyfire says, that he wasn't also working towards fulfilment of some prophecy - he clearly had some stuff going on in that respect). The idea that he was a decidedly shady person but was also in some respects a selfless hero dedicated to his brother's family seems to me more refreshing than yet another master manipulator working behind the scenes for his own ends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

I mean the other thing here is that all the actual Targ kings clearly trusted Bloodraven.

Did they?

There is little doubt that Bloodraven hated Bittersteal. He fought in the Blackfyre Rebelion, I'd even argue he started them.

But, King Daeron II died in the Great Spring Sickness, along with two of his grandchildren, Princes Valarr and Matarys. Valarr had been his Hand. Now it may seem a bit extreme to blame Bloodraven for any of this, but he is accused of it by the septon he has killed, and nobody benefited more.

Oh, indeed. A dreadful time, ser, dreadful. Strong men would wake healthy at the break of day and be dead by evenfall. So many died so quickly there was no time to bury them. They piled them in the Dragonpit instead, and when the corpses were ten feet deep, Lord Rivers commanded the pyromancers to burn them. The light of the fires shone through the windows, as it did of yore when living dragons still nested beneath the dome. By night you could see the glow all through the city, the dark green glow of wildfire. The color green still haunts me to this day. They say the spring was bad in Lannisport and worse in Oldtown, but in King's Landing it cut down four of ten. Neither young nor old were spared, nor rich nor poor, nor great nor humble. Our good High Septon was taken, the gods' own voice on earth, with a third of the Most Devout and near all our silent sisters. His Grace King Daeron, sweet Matarys and bold Valarr, the Hand . . . oh, it was a dreadful time. By the end, half the city was praying to the Stranger."

The Great Spring Sickness weakened the realm and left power vacuums on multiple levels. The Spring Sickness may have been godlier than Euron!

Aerys keeps his own apartments, and it is said that he would sooner take a book to bed than any woman." He filled his cup again. "Make no mistake, 'tis Lord Rivers who rules us, with his spells and spies. There is no one to oppose him. Prince Maekar sulks at Summerhall, nursing his grievances against his royal brother. Prince Rhaegal is as meek as he is mad, and his children are . . . well, children. Friends and favorites of Lord Rivers fill every office, the lords of the small council lick his hand, and this new Grand Maester is as steeped in sorcery as he is. The Red Keep is garrisoned by Raven's Teeth, and no man sees the king without his leave."

It is during this crisis, when Areys takes the throne, that Bloodraven becomes Hand. Then it's said he becomes king in all but name, ruling the realm.

44 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

They knew much more about what was going on than we do, and if Daeron, Aerys or Maekar or Aegon thought that Bloodraven was responsible for bumping off their brothers, grandchildren, nephews, children, etc. on the basis of some sort of secret agenda they had plenty of opportunity to do something about it, whether by sacking him or in Aegon's case just chopping his head off. None of them did. 

First, I'm not claiming they knew. Egg doesn't seem to suspect him at least so far as we've read.

Second, I suspect there is more to Maekar keeping Bloodraven as Hand than meets the eye. His reign lasted less than three years, he didn't die with a named heir, and we know little and less about the details, events, and politics of the time.

44 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

For me the most obvious explanation remains the correct one, and I also think it's the most interesting: that Bloodraven really was fanatically loyal to the Targaryen dynasty (which is not to say, as kissdbyfire says, that he wasn't also working towards fulfilment of some prophecy - he clearly had some stuff going on in that respect). The idea that he was a decidedly shady person but was also in some respects a selfless hero dedicated to his brother's family seems to me more refreshing than yet another master manipulator working behind the scenes for his own ends.

And you may be right, but I'm inclined to suspect that loyalty is not the Machiavellian Bloodraven's shining virtue.

It's all at best circumstantial, admittedly, but if I had to guess, Bloodraven is as close to an arch villain as we will see in ASoIaF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

Don't be crazy. He's weird and he's only got one eye. And he's a bastard: we know they can't be trusted. He must be up to something.

I’d trust a one-eyed man over a two-eyed man, all else being equal. Trouble is just one of many things that must be harder to get up to without binocular vision. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/16/2023 at 10:06 PM, James Steller said:

Bloodraven was in prison, sentenced to death for the murder of Aenys Blackfyre. I can sort of see why Aegon would allow Brynden to take the black, as well as have him be accompanied to the Wall by his Raven’s Teeth. But why would he allow Brynden to take Dark Sister? It was the last VS sword which House Targaryen had. It’s not like they were going to get it back when Brynden croaked. Why would Aegon let him take it with him to the North? 

...I think Aegon knew more about the prophecy than we give him credit for, and I think Bloodraven taking the black with Dark Sister was part of it. I might be being extra charitable, maybe Egg is just stupid, but Aemon and Bloodraven going to the Wall at the same time, the first Targaryens that we know of ever being up there...I don't know, seems coincidental. 

 

I do agree with you, though; it would be kinda satisfying if they were all wrong and all of these people sacrificed so much for a potential future that never comes, missing the potential of their lives along the way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...