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History will say they were just roommates


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Maybe I am just too old fashioned.  I think relationships take time.  I know we hear how the lads hunted and did stuff together, but it sounded like a lot of Jace winning Cregan's confidence to me as he didn't sound particularly welcome at Winterfell at first.  There were so many plates in the air I don't see how there was time to build a love affair, not amid all the political stuff going on--arranging marriages, setting up rumors, hiding Easter, I mean dragon eggs.  I imagine there was a tremendous lot of pressure on both men at the time with war brewing and all.  

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11 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Maybe I am just too old fashioned.  I think relationships take time.  I know we hear how the lads hunted and did stuff together, but it sounded like a lot of Jace winning Cregan's confidence to me as he didn't sound particularly welcome at Winterfell at first.  There were so many plates in the air I don't see how there was time to build a love affair, not amid all the political stuff going on--arranging marriages, setting up rumors, hiding Easter, I mean dragon eggs.  I imagine there was a tremendous lot of pressure on both men at the time with war brewing and all.  

Right? I think if Sara Snow did exist and they were involved, it was a fling. Mayhaps Jace felt duty bound to marry her, as he is basically a Targaryen Robb Stark

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2 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Right? I think if Sara Snow did exist and they were involved, it was a fling. Mayhaps Jace felt duty bound to marry her, as he is basically a Targaryen Robb Stark

I don't think the Sara Snow thing was a thing at all.  It's another relationship that did not have time.  Boy or girl, there just wasn't time and the circumstances were not right.  (Of course, I am thinking love affair and not fling here.)  Jace needed to exact agreement and get the hell home.  He had a war council to serve on and ships to burn.  He was his mother's heir, his grandfather's heir.  He didn't have time for any of this in the North.  There was time for a goofy dragon to lay a clutch of eggs though, if it had a mind to do so.  I just can't imagine how it got down into the crypts.  

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5 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't think the Sara Snow thing was a thing at all.  It's another relationship that did not have time.  Boy or girl, there just wasn't time and the circumstances were not right.  (Of course, I am thinking love affair and not fling here.)  Jace needed to exact agreement and get the hell home.  He had a war council to serve on and ships to burn.  He was his mother's heir, his grandfather's heir.  He didn't have time for any of this in the North.  There was time for a goofy dragon to lay a clutch of eggs though, if it had a mind to do so.  I just can't imagine how it got down into the crypts.  

I’d see it as what happened with Robb and Jeyne. Jace hears about Lucerys in Winterfell. Him & Cregan come to an understanding as they’ve both tragically lost brothers. And then in his grief, he and Sara have a fling.

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Just now, King Maegor the Cool said:

I’d see it as what happened with Robb and Jeyne. Jace hears about Lucerys in Winterfell. Him & Cregan come to an understanding as they’ve both tragically lost brothers. And then in his grief, he and Sara have a fling.

I get that.  We just don't see any of it, just rumor that I think is fairly well placed honestly.  Jace makes a marriage pact with Cregan.  His firstborn to a child Cregan already has I think.  It's a good deal and I'm OK with that right there.  Starks are nothing if not honorable.  

Robb was great that way.  Getting to see him sell his soul for the right thing.  Gads that was horrible.  Not so much with Jace though it's clear with more story the implication is there.  This is clearly on your mind today.  Lay it out for me.  What does a marriage between Jace and Sara bring to the Dance and larger ASOIAF story?  Just to you, not anyone else.  

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10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I get that.  We just don't see any of it, just rumor that I think is fairly well placed honestly.  Jace makes a marriage pact with Cregan.  His firstborn to a child Cregan already has I think.  It's a good deal and I'm OK with that right there.  Starks are nothing if not honorable.  

Robb was great that way.  Getting to see him sell his soul for the right thing.  Gads that was horrible.  Not so much with Jace though it's clear with more story the implication is there.  This is clearly on your mind today.  Lay it out for me.  What does a marriage between Jace and Sara bring to the Dance and larger ASOIAF story?  Just to you, not anyone else.  

It adds a deeper reason in why Cregan was so hell bent on joint the Blacks, even at the end. If it’s too short a time for Jace and Sara to have a developed some form of relationship, then it’s also too short of a time frame for Jace & Cregan dark have developed any kind of relationship. Being it a romantic one, or the one of the brotherhood the book presents. Jace losing his little brother makes Cregan able to (sympathize/empathize?) with Jace. If Jace had impregnated Sara, and vowed to wed her (as he puts off his marriage to Baela until after the Dance) it shows Cregan that Jace has a sense of right and wrong, and doesn’t just think of the Starks as another vassal. Because up until that point, the Starks have no reason to even like the Targaryens. Yet Cregan goes south with such vigor and intensity it’s as if he had personally been wronged. 
 

And Jace I’ve always felt as if was just a cheap clone of Robb & Jon. Him having a bastard, would have him realize Jon’s biggest fear, which is something he could personally relate to as he grew up with his paternity always in question. It makes perfect sense as to why he wouldn’t want a bastard and would do the right thing by marrying Sara. Jace is the moral compass of Team Black, and one of the things Rhaenyra did right. I imagine she raised him right.

 

I just personally would find it a more compelling story than Sara not existing at all, or Cregan & Jace being secret gay lovers.

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I have never heard of a Jace-Cregan pairing, but if there were Loras, Renly, Margaery parallels with Cregan, Jacaerys, Sara, I would be totally fine with that. The likelihood Mushroom made an entire person up, while goofy as fuck, is not that likely. And having the Pact of Ice and Fire, the partial namesake of the entire series, be a fun gay love story between a Strong-Targ bastard and a Stark-Glover son would be nice. But they might have just been friends as it is true they didn't have much time to get to know each other in that more romantic sense. 

No doubt we'll learn more in HotD, hopefully approved semi-canon by George to fill in the gaps?, and maybe because the prophecy is a much larger part of the series, the Pact of Ice and Fire will have more consequence to explain what Egg and  Rhaegar were working on down the line. 

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1 hour ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

I have never heard of a Jace-Cregan pairing, but if there were Loras, Renly, Margaery parallels with Cregan, Jacaerys, Sara, I would be totally fine with that. The likelihood Mushroom made an entire person up, while goofy as fuck, is not that likely. And having the Pact of Ice and Fire, the partial namesake of the entire series, be a fun gay love story between a Strong-Targ bastard and a Stark-Glover son would be nice. But they might have just been friends as it is true they didn't have much time to get to know each other in that more romantic sense. 

No doubt we'll learn more in HotD, hopefully approved semi-canon by George to fill in the gaps?, and maybe because the prophecy is a much larger part of the series, the Pact of Ice and Fire will have more consequence to explain what Egg and  Rhaegar were working on down the line. 

I never thought of that. He is a liar but to outright make an entire person up is whacky.

And why would Mushroom make up a whole ass girl to hide Jace and Cregan being gay? He seems to be about saying the most outlandish and crazy stories. I’d figure Jace & Cregan being romantically involved would be something Mushroom WOULD say.

Gyldayn could’ve made it up alto hide it, but why would he credit Mushroom for saying it?

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8 hours ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

I never thought of that. He is a liar but to outright make an entire person up is whacky.

And why would Mushroom make up a whole ass girl to hide Jace and Cregan being gay? He seems to be about saying the most outlandish and crazy stories. I’d figure Jace & Cregan being romantically involved would be something Mushroom WOULD say.

Gyldayn could’ve made it up alto hide it, but why would he credit Mushroom for saying it?

Because some maesters are assholes.  

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2 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

I will say that I simply hope Sara Snow is real. GRRM has written some incredibly beautiful moments throughout these novels of horror and deception. The show could use a dash of that romance, a moment where relationships matter.

See but regardless, she disappears. Meaning she and probably the baby die in childbirth

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