James Steller Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Was there ever a reason given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, James Steller said: Was there ever a reason given? He was fostered in war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Storm's End, built against a god no less, was the only place strong enough to contain Stannis. Such is his Mannisness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Why should he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, frenin said: Why should he? Agreed. Instead, heirs should've sent their fathers to Stannis so they can be lectured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Not every lord sends their kids away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 20, 2023 Author Share Posted March 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, sifth said: Not every lord sends their kids away. Steff and Cass sent Robert away. Why not Stannis too? though come to think of it, I probably wouldn’t want to deal with Robert either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Sending your sons away as wards (rather than as squires) voluntarily seems something of an exception. I'm actually struggling to think of other examples. Robert talks about doing it with Sweetrobin in AGoT but it doesn't happen. Most of the wards we know of were or are effectively hostages. There's some other weirdness with the Ned/Robert fostering too. It doesn't seem to have taken Robert away from Storm's End as much as you'd think: he was there when Steffon's ship was wrecked, he apparently often went hunting with Stannis etc. And by the time of the rebellion he was not about twenty years old, well over the Westerosi age of majority, and a great lord in his own right - so what was he still doing fostering in the Vale? It makes me wonder if GRRM changed his mind about the whole thing after AGoT as he continued to develop the world, but since Ned and Robert fostering together is an important point in the plot he couldn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 4 hours ago, James Steller said: Why not Stannis too? Why should they? 40 minutes ago, Alester Florent said: so what was he still doing fostering in the Vale? His fosterig ended at age 16 By then Eyrie was his home almost as much as Storm's End was, same for Ned. He'd find the idea of hanging out with his best friend and his surrogate father appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, frenin said: He'd find the idea of hanging out with his best friend and his surrogate father appealing. If he was more like Renly in his errr... prefferences, he would've found other things appealing as well. The guy is so into Ned he wants to marry a female Ned, Lyanna. Really gives me shivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Alester Florent said: There's some other weirdness with the Ned/Robert fostering too. It doesn't seem to have taken Robert away from Storm's End as much as you'd think: he was there when Steffon's ship was wrecked, he apparently often went hunting with Stannis etc. And by the time of the rebellion he was not about twenty years old, well over the Westerosi age of majority, and a great lord in his own right - so what was he still doing fostering in the Vale? It makes me wonder if GRRM changed his mind about the whole thing after AGoT as he continued to develop the world, but since Ned and Robert fostering together is an important point in the plot he couldn't change that. Wards do seem to be something punitive against rebellious fathers, at least as the northern clansmen tell it. Lysa is terrified of her boy going anywhere, but that is a really unhealthy relationship. Quentyn Martell was something of a peace offering and cost Doran his marriage. No, fostering from a sense of cultural exchange and strengthening allies does seem localized with Jon Arryn. Not many men like him around all the time. I think @frenin has most of the right of it. Robert had a family in the Vale, a place he loved and was loved. Though Ned was fond of his time there, he hasn't got the star crossed yearning for it Robert has. Ned had a family of his own he loved. Doesn't sound like Robert did, despite Maester Cressen's best efforts. I think Stannis could have benefitted a great deal from some time with Rickard Stark or better yet, Doran and Oberyn Martell. Expose him to more of the world than the murky gloomy island fortresses he sheltered in. Get some sunshine and snow on his face, maybe a little laughter and good food, a rousing song or two. Might have given him stronger people skills. Might have made him a good king one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Robert and Ned fostered with Jon Arryn because Steffon, Rickard, and Jon were friends, and Jon didn't have kids, and they didn't want his wisdom to go to waste, maybe. It was probably more about Stannis himself: he was an introverted and sad kid. Stannis could have fostered in the North, I guess, but he just seems like kind of a stand-offish kid, not the type to mingle super well far away from home. It's weird that Robert and Ned weren't designated as squires like Jaime with Sumner, though; they just were foster kids, kinda like Doran and Oberyn with Gargalen and Qorgyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Stag Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 How old was Stannis when Steffon died? 11? If so, he would have been about 10 when his parents left for Essos, about the same age as Robert when he left for the Vale I believe, so they may have been waiting a couple of years to make arrangements, with plans interrupted by their untimely death. Also, with everyone else gone, Stannis may effectively been “the Baratheon in Storms End”. Alternatively, Steffon’s situation may have changed soon after the agreement was made to foster Robert in the Vale with him becoming Hand. As Hand he would likely need to be more careful politically In something like choosing where to foster Stannis. It could be as simple as fearing the King becoming jealous or suspicious if Stannis was sent somewhere other than court…. Also, he may have just wanted one child out of the Stormlands and one in, similar to a Brandon and Ned situation with fostering/ being raised. Sending both kids out of the Stormlands may not sit well with the other lords in the Stormlands Edit: Sorry, I thought Steffon was made Hand, but he was just summoned to King's Landing and made part of the small council. However, I do still think that Aerys's paranoia and the changing political may have been a consideration in fostering Stannis or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Hey @Green Stag, welcome. That's not a bad point, really, though you would think politically the powers that be would force Robert to stay at Storm's End and farm the younger brother out. (And that heel of a king would send for one of the orphans to court.) I bet the Castellan would have liked it better that way. Looking at it that way you have to think that Jon Arryn, Hoster and Rickard were some smooth talkers getting Robert away. Imagine Castellan's eyes crossing when Bob reaches his majority and refuses to come home! Looking over the terms of the arrangements as I understand them, Robert got the short end of the deal. Jon Arryn got a potentially fertile young wife to ensure his name and place in the Vale. Tully married both his daughters to high lords or high lords in waiting. Rickard married his only daughter to a high lord. All Robert got was an only daughter...and Ned, he did get Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, Green Stag said: How old was Stannis when Steffon died? 11? 14-15. Robert was 16 and they are only a year apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 4 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: Stannis could have fostered in the North, I guess Honestly, Stannis would have been much more content in the North. He doesn't believe in the Seven anyway, he hates frivolity, he's blunt and honest, prefers to personally deal out justice. If he'd been born a Stark of Winterfell, he'd have probably preferred his lot in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Canon Claude said: Honestly, Stannis would have been much more content in the North. He doesn't believe in the Seven anyway, he hates frivolity, he's blunt and honest, prefers to personally deal out justice. If he'd been born a Stark of Winterfell, he'd have probably preferred his lot in life. Hindsight is 20/20, Cressen probably wanted to keep the kid around Storm's End. He also didn't stop believing in the Seven until his parents died when he was 14, leaving only two years of fostering. But it probably would have been better for Stannis to have gotten out more when he was younger; maybe he wouldn't have been co-opted by religious fanatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 21 hours ago, James Steller said: Steff and Cass sent Robert away. Why not Stannis too? though come to think of it, I probably wouldn’t want to deal with Robert either. My take is that they had ambitions for Robert. He was the most powerful AND charismatic of the three, while adults. I don't see it different when he was a kid. Stannis was kept at Storm's End because, and of course this is just a wild guess, Cassandra and Steffon had for him planned to rule the castle. During the course of the war, in the main saga, Stannis is strangely adamant on taking Storm's End, even if Davos gave a prudent advice to march to King's Landing and just leave a token force behind. IIRC, doing this would have resulted in effectively taking the city, or at least Stannis' siege not being smashed by the combined Lannister/Tyrell armies. during the Blackwater. About Storm's End: it's clear that he had a right to claim the castle, but I add that he grew up convinced by himself and a bit by others that he was to inherit that ancestral bulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jon Fossoway said: it's clear that he had a right to claim the castle, but I add that he grew up convinced by himself and a bit by others that he was to inherit that ancestral bulk. No. About either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 54 minutes ago, frenin said: No. About either. Yep, that's why I said "a" claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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