Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 It seemed she ruled Harrenhal for some time after the Dance of the Dragons. What do you think happened to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Presumably, there was some sort of insurrection which had to be put down. The son was either sent to the Citadel, the Wall, or the executioner’s block. My guess, though, is that he was sent to the Wall since he was probably still a minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 hour ago, James Steller said: Presumably, there was some sort of insurrection which had to be put down. The son was either sent to the Citadel, the Wall, or the executioner’s block. My guess, though, is that he was sent to the Wall since he was probably still a minor. It is more likely that things only came to blow when the boy was already a youth or even an adult. Harrenhal only gets a new lord in 151 AC, Larys Strong's remains are only buried at Harrenhal years later, etc. so Alys and her son might have remained alive and in possession of Harrenhal until around 150 AC - and her son would have been around 20 by then, having been born sometime after Aemond's death in 130 AC. One imagines that, especially if Alys' son does have a dragon, Aegon III will be reluctant to actually attack Harrenhal. Rather he might end up confirming Alys and her son in their possession of Harrenhal, recognizing him as his (bastard) cousin in exchange for them acknowledging him as their king. After all, they just fought a bloody succession war which killed a lot of royal children and caused him a lot of grief, so we can imagine he doesn't want Aemond's son to suffer a similar fate. Eventually, though, once the boy is old enough, he might demand his uncle's throne, even more so since by all the precedents he, and not Rhaenyra's brats, is the rightful king (assuming Aemond and Alys were actually married). So we could see a very unpleasant late epilogue to the Dance, featuring one final dragon battle causing the death of the last healthy dragon(s). I'd even imagine that it will be Alys and her son who recover Vhagar's corpse and Dark Sister, making the sword her son's weapon when he challenges Aegon III. It would also not surprise me if Alys' son ended up marrying Myrielle Peake, with Unwin meeting his end as a supporter of the subsequent rebellion. Alternatively, I could also see Myrielle as the eventual wife of a fake Daeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Star Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 I like to think he had a daughter named Jenny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, Mourning Star said: I like to think he had a daughter named Jenny. Granddaughter, to make that timeline work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 If Alys' son lives long enough to marry - which would be the case if he only dies around 150 AC - then he could indeed have one or multiple children. That could be not uninteresting in context. Say, Aemond's son marries in the late 140s and does have a daughter, she could survive the entire thing and might end up a ward of the Crown. That could then be the perfect explanation as to why Daeron I isn't married - they could betroth him to the only child of Aemond's son to ensure that this claim is taken over by the bloodline of Aegon III. But if she were born only in 149 AC or so, she would be too young to actually marry Daeron I during the latter's short reign. If she were born in 147 AC or earlier they could actually have a wedding in 160-161 AC. That could then also open the possibility for Daeron I having a posthumous daughter - which is a scenario I'd like. Also, of course, such a daughter could also end up as a Baratheon bride, strengthening their connection to the Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 I imagine Vizzy II took care of the problem when he was hand, explaining why Harrenhal had an opening in 151 that Viserys asked Aegon to fill with Lucas Lothston. I would assume, if Duncan and Denys are truly Strongs, that an older Alys and her son were sent East and now they're part of the Golden Company fighting for Aegon. I really hope she has nothing to do with Jenny tbh. I don't think Aegon had any marriage plans with Aemond's son: that would legitimize his cousin's cause and potentially rile up more Dance of the Dragons stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: I imagine Vizzy II took care of the problem when he was hand, explaining why Harrenhal had an opening in 151 that Viserys asked Aegon to fill with Lucas Lothston. I would assume, if Duncan and Denys are truly Strongs, that an older Alys and her son were sent East and now they're part of the Golden Company fighting for Aegon. I really hope she has nothing to do with Jenny tbh. I don't think Viserys could have handled the situation of Alys Rivers and her son all by himself, although he likely will be Hand when that crisis reaches its peak, so he might very well command an army in his brother's name or something along that sort. But I do expect that dragonriders will be involved in that fight on both sides which would likely mean Alys' son on the one side and Lady Rhaena on Morning on the other. Rhaena could die with Morning at Harrenhal if the thing happens around 150 AC since that would give her enough time to give birth to her six daughters by Garmund Hightower if they are going to marry in 137 or 138 AC. 3 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: I don't think Aegon had any marriage plans with Aemond's son: that would legitimize his cousin's cause and potentially rile up more Dance of the Dragons stuff. Not with Aemond's son but possibly with a daughter of Aemond's son if she is still a babe or a toddler by the time Alys and her son are dealt with. Such a child could then become a ward of the Crown like Gaemon Palehair. And to ensure that such a girl would make no trouble Aegon III could betroth her to his heir Daeron. Chances that Jenny has any connection to Alys Rivers are very low. Jenny claims to have ties to the old kings of House Mudd, not to the Strongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Star Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Chances that Jenny has any connection to Alys Rivers are very low. Jenny claims to have ties to the old kings of House Mudd, not to the Strongs. I agree with this, but still want to believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 In that context one should also keep in mind that Aegon III was actually married to Aegon II's daughter Jaehaera. She was his first queen and she died on his watch. Whatever Aegon III may have thought about his uncles and his step-grandmother Alicent, he likely didn't fault Jaehaera for their actions. And then there is also his friendship with Gaemon Palehair who may have been a natural son of Aegon II. All that should motivate Aegon III to try to work with Alys and her son as long as that is possible ... and it would also motivate him to pardon a child of Alys' son. And thinking about that - I think the death of Jaehaera might actually turn out to be the reason why Unwin Peake will eventually feel the full power of the wrath of the Iron Throne. Something like that cannot be ignored of forgiven. Nobody can arrange the actual murder of a queen and walk away afterwards. If Aegon and Viserys believe that Peake was behind this, he will pay for it eventually. They don't need proof of his involvement to destroy him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: In that context one should also keep in mind that Aegon III was actually married to Aegon II's daughter Jaehaera. She was his first queen and she died on his watch. Whatever Aegon III may have thought about his uncles and his step-grandmother Alicent, he likely didn't fault Jaehaera for their actions. And then there is also his friendship with Gaemon Palehair who may have been a natural son of Aegon II. All that should motivate Aegon III to try to work with Alys and her son as long as that is possible ... and it would also motivate him to pardon a child of Alys' son. And thinking about that - I think the death of Jaehaera might actually turn out to be the reason why Unwin Peake will eventually feel the full power of the wrath of the Iron Throne. Something like that cannot be ignored of forgiven. Nobody can arrange the actual murder of a queen and walk away afterwards. If Aegon and Viserys believe that Peake was behind this, he will pay for it eventually. They don't need proof of his involvement to destroy him. The fact that House Peake is still around at the time of the main series is nothing short of baffling to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Lord Varys said: I don't think Viserys could have handled the situation of Alys Rivers and her son all by himself, although he likely will be Hand when that crisis reaches its peak, so he might very well command an army in his brother's name or something along that sort. But I do expect that dragonriders will be involved in that fight on both sides which would likely mean Alys' son on the one side and Lady Rhaena on Morning on the other. Rhaena could die with Morning at Harrenhal if the thing happens around 150 AC since that would give her enough time to give birth to her six daughters by Garmund Hightower if they are going to marry in 137 or 138 AC. I think if there were dragons, we would have known about it as like the last major dragon battle in Westeros, however Rhaena doing anything makes me very happy so I'd love for this to be fleshed out more. 6 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Chances that Jenny has any connection to Alys Rivers are very low. Jenny claims to have ties to the old kings of House Mudd, not to the Strongs. I really want her to be connected to the Justmans so she can be Blackwood, but that probably won't be it. We're gonna have to wait for like 10 more Dunk and Egg novellas before we get details Also I realize what you meant about the son's daughter being a candidate for Daeron, and I actually see that being possible, but I'm not sure they'd want the stigma of the queen being the crazy witch of Harrenhal's daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 GRRM hasn't written that part yet. It takes an "insane" amount of knowledge to figure out the stuff before GRRM writes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 13 hours ago, King Maegor the Cool said: The fact that House Peake is still around at the time of the main series is nothing short of baffling to me Pretty obvious why they survived Unwin - the guy had but his daughter Myrielle, and if, say, Uncle Gedmund remains true and loyal to the king on whose council he sat when last we saw him ... then, well, it seems like only right and proper that he be given the lordship(s) of House Peake. 12 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: I think if there were dragons, we would have known about it as like the last major dragon battle in Westeros, however Rhaena doing anything makes me very happy so I'd love for this to be fleshed out more. Nope, since the reign of Aegon III stands, as of yet, as unwritten as the reign of Jaehaerys I was before FaB was published. We also have no clue about the deaths of the dragons that are yet alive at the end of the Dance, no clue how exactly the Cannibal and Silverwing bite the dust, no clue whether any of them is claimed by another rider before their deaths, no idea if we ever learn when and how Sheepstealer died (although I imagine that Gyldayn will give us a credible rumor or report confirming or implying that Sheepstealer is dead by the time the last dragon dies). 12 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: I really want her to be connected to the Justmans so she can be Blackwood, but that probably won't be it. We're gonna have to wait for like 10 more Dunk and Egg novellas before we get details Also I realize what you meant about the son's daughter being a candidate for Daeron, and I actually see that being possible, but I'm not sure they'd want the stigma of the queen being the crazy witch of Harrenhal's daughter. I guess something like that will depend on the standing of Alys' son within the larger Realm. Is his rebellion going to inspire a considerable number of notable houses to support him. If that is the case then a victorious Aegon III would be well-advised to integrate such a daughter into his dynastic plans. If not, then she could easily enough be ignored. Also, of course, if my scenario about Alys and her son lasting until around 150 AC then Aegon III will be particularly lenient to them and they might even be on good footing for some time. If that is the case, then Aegon III treating such a hypothetical child gently would also not be surprising. We could, for instance, speculate that Alys' son ends up rebelling only because Aegon III doesn't grant him something he really desires - say, the hand of Princess Naerys or that of the second Laena Velaryon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: Nope, since the reign of Aegon III stands, as of yet, as unwritten as the reign of Jaehaerys I was before FaB was published. We also have no clue about the deaths of the dragons that are yet alive at the end of the Dance, no clue how exactly the Cannibal and Silverwing bite the dust, no clue whether any of them is claimed by another rider before their deaths, no idea if we ever learn when and how Sheepstealer died (although I imagine that Gyldayn will give us a credible rumor or report confirming or implying that Sheepstealer is dead by the time the last dragon dies). No I mean in the present, I feel like we would have heard about another big dragon battle. But it might just be more a footnote that Blood and Fire could expand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said: No I mean in the present, I feel like we would have heard about another big dragon battle. But it might just be more a footnote that Blood and Fire could expand on. If you check the books we only ever heard about the big dragon battles of the Conquest in the main books. Even as late as ADwD we merely got some name-dropping of other dragons - Alysanne's Silverwing, Rhaenyra's Syrax, Vhagar being Aemond's mount during the Dance, Balerion dying during the reign of Jaehaerys I. Even something as big as Meraxes and Rhaenys being killed in Dorne is something that has, so far, only been touched upon in the history books. Never mind that the fact that we got the skulls of the big dragons in the main books - providing George with a pretext and an opportunity to talk about the deaths of those dragons. While we know about the Dance from the books, the fact that there was another struggle between Targaryen dragonriders during the reign of Maegor is something we have not the slightest hints in the books. In fact, the very fact that Maegor was a usurper and not King Aenys' chosen and anointed successor is also something we only get from the history books. The way I imagine this thing it would be more like Aegon the Uncrowned's rebellion against Maegor than the Dance of the Dragons. As I said, more like a belated epilogue to the Dance than a devastating war. Although, of course, chances are pretty good that Aegon III's reign will be full of armed conflicts - the fake Daerons are likely going to make trouble during the reign of the Dragonbane and not during the reign of his sons. Both the Young Dragon and Baelor the Blessed should be way too popular with the people for an impostor to stir up trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Isis Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 If he ended up at the wall….Could he be Cold Hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oldstones Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Much as i'd like the scenario of him having descendants married to some noble House, he will die young like Maegor Towers.Targ are always disposed,especially those with decent claims in stupid ways without any children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 In my head canon, I'd like to think that he was the maternal grandfather of Missy Blackwood. ETA: nevermind the ages don't match up. ETAA: well, it being Westeros, I suppose it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 On 3/24/2023 at 10:43 PM, Lady Isis said: If he ended up at the wall….Could he be Cold Hands? Cold hands is one of bryden rivers raven teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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