The Roose Bolton connection

[Tradecraft]

Roose Bolton has strange connections to "swamps" or "marshlands". 

His name "Bolton", is derived from the Russian "Bolotin" or "Swamp" (like Michael Bolton, the singer). 

Roose Bolton is also called the Leechlord, for his use of leeches which are commonly found in swamps/marsh's/bogs. This is the second connection he has with swamps (1. His name 2. The leeches). 

 

He's not the only character associated with leeches/swamps. 

We have;

Chett (of the nights watch)

-Leechman's son (wades into the swamp/Hag's Mire to capture leeches)

And...

Bowen Marsh

-his last name, connects to swamps

 

Bowen and Chett are both stewards at the wall. 

Bowen stabs Jon Snow, just like Roose stabs Robb Stark. 

 

There is something going on here. I can't place my finger on it. 

But it cannot be a coincidence that these characters are linked in more ways than one. 

 

What do you think about Roose being connected to swamps? 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

13 minutes ago, Tradecraft said:

Roose Bolton has strange connections to "swamps" or "marshlands". 

His name "Bolton", is derived from the Russian "Bolotin" or "Swamp" (like Michael Bolton, the singer). 

Roose Bolton is also called the Leechlord, for his use of leeches which are commonly found in swamps/marsh's/bogs. This is the second connection he has with swamps (1. His name 2. The leeches). 

 

He's not the only character associated with leeches/swamps. 

We have;

Chett (of the nights watch)

-Leechman's son (wades into the swamp/Hag's Mire to capture leeches)

And...

Bowen Marsh

-his last name, connects to swamps

 

Bowen and Chett are both stewards at the wall. 

Bowen stabs Jon Snow, just like Roose stabs Robb Stark. 

 

There is something going on here. I can't place my finger on it. 

But it cannot be a coincidence that these characters are linked in more ways than one. 

 

What do you think about Roose being connected to swamps? 

 

Bolton is a place in England and has nothing to do with swamp according to wiktionary. Remember Umbers who dwell to the north of Last River? Northumbria.

 

Bolton - Wiktionary

[Tradecraft]

I get that. 

I also get that the Bolton's wear skin cloaks (bolt/weaving... Skin cloaks). 

 

But the leeches made be believe the swamp connection. 

[Mourning Star]

20 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Bolton is a place in England and has nothing to do with swamp according to wiktionary. Remember Umbers who dwell to the north of Last River? Northumbria.

 

Bolton - Wiktionary

Bolton is in Lancashire, as in the Lancasters, from whom the Lannisters presumably get their name. Roose ends up in league with the Lannisters.

 

[Curled Finger]

Perhaps the leeches are the the connection, not the swamp.   See, I like, with zero basis at all, this mention of the Boltons being the Red Kings with no explanation.  That gives me permission to let my mind go completely nuts, which it likes a lot.  I have decent clues as to the identity of the Warg Kings and know who the Marsh Kings and Barrow Kings were as well as a good idea what their particular magics were.  The descendents of the Kings of Winter who seem to have all of these powers with the glaring omission of necromancy but the definite addition of skinchanging inclines me to believe the Boltons may have been those magical original skinchangers.  

Everyone knows I'm terrible with symbolism, but even I get the Flayed Man here.  It's all about taking skin.  Leeches are about taking blood, hence all the vampire references.  No one can say I'm wrong about the Red Kings being skinchangers because we don't know.  Ha!  There are so few Boltons and no real lineage to follow.  I'm not really sure how that old Bolt-On idea goes, but it's something like Roose is just waiting to take Ramsay's skin.  That's just delicious as wicked horrible goes.  Maybe I get to see them both die twice!  

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

This is a neat catch. Robb and Jon both felled by knives that came from a swamp person. I believe that the author uses the mire or swamp as a metaphor for the wiernet or whatever you want to call the collectivized minds of all those dead greenseers in all those old trees.  If as LML and many others have posited, we are seeing actions from the Dawn Age reflected in the actions on the page, I wonder if this points to a blow from within the trees or treenet that either felled Azor Ahai (or the night king or the Bloodstone Emperor or whoever he represents) or transformed him?

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Perhaps the leeches are the the connection, not the swamp.   See, I like, with zero basis at all, this mention of the Boltons being the Red Kings with no explanation.  That gives me permission to let my mind go completely nuts, which it likes a lot.  I have decent clues as to the identity of the Warg Kings and know who the Marsh Kings and Barrow Kings were as well as a good idea what their particular magics were.  The descendents of the Kings of Winter who seem to have all of these powers with the glaring omission of necromancy but the definite addition of skinchanging inclines me to believe the Boltons may have been those magical original skinchangers.  

Everyone knows I'm terrible with symbolism, but even I get the Flayed Man here.  It's all about taking skin.  Leeches are about taking blood, hence all the vampire references.  No one can say I'm wrong about the Red Kings being skinchangers because we don't know.  Ha!  There are so few Boltons and no real lineage to follow.  I'm not really sure how that old Bolt-On idea goes, but it's something like Roose is just waiting to take Ramsay's skin.  That's just delicious as wicked horrible goes.  Maybe I get to see them both die twice!  

I'm holding out for Roose stealing Ramsay's body and carrying on.  I'll be disappointed if they turn out to be just a regular family of degenerate psychopaths.

[Corvo the Crow]

4 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I'm holding out for Roose stealing Ramsay's body and carrying on.  I'll be disappointed if they turn out to be just a regular family of degenerate psychopaths.

From what I remember, GRRM has personally dismissed that claim in an interwiev with a magazine or something.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Just now, Corvo the Crow said:

From what I remember, GRRM has personally dismissed that claim in an interwiev with a magazine or something.

There was a quote from Elio Garcia I believe that completely dismissed it, but I don't know about anything from Martin. Probably just as good, but I remain hopeful. We got werewolves, we got elves, we got giants, we got dwarves, Frankenstein's monster, selkies, whatever the eff a squisher is, we got 'em! We can have a vampire too, can't we?

[GZ Bloodraven]

If there was an intentional connection between swamps and the Boltons, the Dreadfort and the history of the Red Kings would be closer to The Neck. Bowen Marsh is obviously most likely from the Neck, and Chett's dad probably sold leeches to Roose's maester, that he gathered from just south of the Neck. Then there's the faceless/skinless angle, and symbolism around death: Chett being killed by death, Bowen killing Jon, Roose killing Robb, the Faceless Men flaying faces and then wearing them. I don't know if this is that deep, especially because Bolton is a real place unrelated to swamps. 

 

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I'm holding out for Roose stealing Ramsay's body and carrying on.  I'll be disappointed if they turn out to be just a regular family of degenerate psychopaths.

I kind of feel the opposite: sometimes I prefer the simple explanation, that the Boltons are some crazy motherfuckers who like sadism and leeching themselves, to the magical one, where the son possess the father's body. 

[sweetsunray]

Let's not forget that Chett was the original plotter of the mutiny murder plans at the Fist.

I also always find it important that if you recognize a pattern or similarities (such as swamp/mires, leeches, plotting treason for Marsh, Chett and Bolton), you should also take the oddball into account, which in this case are the Crannogmen and Howland Reed of the Neck.

The Neck is swampland too. On the surface though one could argue that the Boltons managed to become its masters by using Theon to get rid of the Ironborn at Moat Cailin, and Roose managed to pass through unmolested. The fact though that LS traveled first into Hag's Mire and then journeyed on into the Neck before Roose passed through though (with a green Tom Sevenstreams and a yellow Lem Lemoncloak: green-gold combo) shows the allegiance is not to the leech lord. Also HR sent his two children out of the Neck's swampland to help Bran Stark escape the murderous intentions of Ramsay Bolton. No mention of leeches for the Neck, but lizard lions instead. Crannogmen allegedly used to ride them, and this claim I consider a reference or parallel to dragonriding. But lizard lions also appear as floating "logs" (wood) and can submerge, so an aquatic tree reference.

Another swam area shows up in Brienne's arc, and leads to Quiet Isle. No leeches there, only mentions of crabs, rubies and dead people floating to the isle like driftwood. And we know rubies can be used to glamor, which can be said to be another type of skinchanging magic - make people don a new or different face. But interestingly enough it does remind me of Roose Bolton's rule: a peaceful land, a quiet people. Quiet Isle has quiet people, and therefore a land of peace. Quiet Isle though seems to be more akin to Reed's leechless swamps. So, did people leave the Quiet Isle to help a certain Stark nearby to escape? And do the crabs fit with the quiet people rule - if you lose, you were never here?

 

[sweetsunray]

35 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

Bowen Marsh is obviously most likely from the Neck

Is Bowen Marsh a crannogman, and nobody ever noticed his small stature? Or is he the rare giant amongst them?

[GZ Bloodraven]

3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Is Bowen Marsh a crannogman, and nobody ever noticed his small stature? Or is he the rare giant amongst them?

I don't think he's a crannogman, I just think it's likely that House Marsh is from somewhere around the big marsh in the North that used to be ruled by the Marsh Kings.

[sweetsunray]

Just now, GZ Bloodraven said:

I don't think he's a crannogman, I just think it's likely that House Marsh is from somewhere around the big marsh in the North. 

House Marsh is a northern house. A semi-canon source makes their sigil that of 10 green frogs on a yellow field (I think I discovered a green-gold fool for the Wall plot). It's been theorized that House Marsh might be from the Neck, but it's not included with the common names for the area in aDwD, Reek II

Quote

 Just as dangerous were its people, seldom seen but always lurking, the swamp-dwellers, the frog-eaters, the mud-men. Fenn and Reed, Peat and Boggs, Cray and Quagg, Greengood and Blackmyre, those were the sorts of names they gave themselves. 

Where does the leech lord Roose Bolton gets his leeches from? We may ecologically just assume this would be from the Neck, but as I pointed out, curiously enough the books never mention leeches for the Neck. Instead we get venomous serpents, poisonous flowers and lizard lions, but no leeches. Perhaps there are other marshlands in the North, beside the Neck, closer to the Dreadfort with leeches? Maybe the Marshes are some minor house from those lands?

Oh and crannogmen are "frog eaters". So, a house with frogs for a sigil would not fare well in that area.

[GZ Bloodraven]

11 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

House Marsh is a northern house. A semi-canon source makes their sigil that of 10 green frogs on a yellow field (I think I discovered a green-gold fool for the Wall plot). It's been theorized that House Marsh might be from the Neck, but it's not included with the common names for the area in aDwD, Reek II

House Marsh being from the North, and not being from the marsh is silly. I'm not saying that Bowen is a crannogman (maybe he's so big because he doesn't eat frogs) but I am saying that his house is from around the Neck. Also House Crakehall's sigil is a boar because their founder killed and ate a boar: maybe the first Marsh King killed ten frogs and ate them and now it's their sigil.

As to the names thing, the whole point of that section is to say that the houses of the marsh name themselves after things related to the marsh. So House Marsh...is from the marsh. 

Leeches come from south of the neck in the riverlands, or at least Chett's dad's leeches do.

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

House Marsh being from the North, and not being from the marsh is silly. I'm not saying that Bowen is a crannogman (maybe he's so big because he doesn't eat frogs) but I am saying that his house is from around the Neck. Also House Crakehall's sigil is a boar because their founder killed and ate a boar: maybe the first Marsh King killed ten frogs and ate them and now it's their sigil.

As to the names thing, the whole point of that section is to say that the houses of the marsh name themselves after things related to the marsh. So House Marsh...is from the marsh. 

Leeches come from south of the neck in the riverlands, or at least Chett's dad's leeches do.

I'm saying the Neck may not be the only marsh in the North.

[GZ Bloodraven]

3 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I'm saying the Neck may not be the only marsh in the North.

Maybe; I'm looking at the map rn and idk where one would be. The Flint Cliffs, Wolfswood, Barrowlands, Hornwood, The Rills, Northern mountains, Sheepshead Hills...like most of it seems charted, but there could be a smaller marsh where House Marsh is from. I just think it makes most sense for House Marsh to be related to the Marsh Kings of the Neck. 

[sweetsunray]

28 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

Maybe; I'm looking at the map rn and idk where one would be. The Flint Cliffs, Wolfswood, Barrowlands, Hornwood, The Rills, Northern mountains, Sheepshead Hills...like most of it seems charted, but there could be a smaller marsh where House Marsh is from. I just think it makes most sense for House Marsh to be related to the Marsh Kings of the Neck. 

The Marsh Kings were crannogmen. Bowen Marsh is not a crannogman.

I get why it would be the first place you think of, but the crannogmen stature rules that out.

There is still a lot left uncharted. We still don't know several locations of houses referenced in the North. Do you know where house Cassel is located, or house Condon? House Ironsmith? House Mollen? No, because Cassel isn't so much a landed house as it is a living in bannermen house. And it's likely the same for others. Minor houses are rarely "mapped". In the case of House Marsh, we only have one known member, and that is Bowen Marsh himself, and it's blazon is semi canon, indicating a minor house, which may not even have a keep or a long lineage. George will reveal this at some point, at best in an appendix, and he can always point to some area that has so far been unspecified and make it marshland somewhere in the North, far away from the Neck.

After all Chett isn't from the Neck either, but Hag's Mire, which is south from the Twins, between the Twins and Oldstones.  

[Loose Bolt]

I am surprised that nobody had typed about connection between Faceless Men and Boltons. Or both of them flay their victims. Certain bastard even behave like a FM. 

[Jon Fossoway]

Quote

(like Michael Bolton, the singer).

I firmly believe this is the true connection.

Robb: March with me.

Roose: Okay.

Later

Robb: ...

Roose: I said I loved you but I lied.