DC Cinematic Universe: Let the Blames Begin

[Knight of Ashes]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

In the original story, Thawne has some technical babel, about how breaking the speed barrier causes changes in the timeline, ever so slightly, but enough to throw things out of wack.

Yeah, in the animated version, Eobard (I betcha it's that name that caused him to go whacko ) called it um..."time wave"? "Time bomb"? Whatev.

Actually,  the original timeline was the one where Barry's mom wasn't killed (before Geoff Johns decided DC didn't have enough characters with parental issues) butI'm not gonna follow that train of thought.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Knight of Ashes

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

In the original story, Thawne has some technical babel, about how breaking the speed barrier causes changes in the timeline, ever so slightly, but enough to throw things out of wack.

 

Sure, and I'm sure there'll be something like that here. The point being that previous posters were discussing what changes Flash might be able to cause by doing what he does, and the answer, per Flashpoint tradition, is 'anything the writers want'. 

[HokieStone]

Interesting cameo in the Flash revealed...

 

Spoiler

Apparently Nic Cage will be showing up as Superman, from the never-filmed Tim Burton Superman movie.

https://nerdist.com/article/this-the-flash-cameo-is-a-suprise-built-over-decades-nicolas-nic-cage-will-play-superman/

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:30 AM, HokieStone said:

Interesting cameo in the Flash revealed...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Apparently Nic Cage will be showing up as Superman, from the never-filmed Tim Burton Superman movie.

https://nerdist.com/article/this-the-flash-cameo-is-a-suprise-built-over-decades-nicolas-nic-cage-will-play-superman/

 

I’ve heard that. I’ve also heard…

Spoiler

A Christopher Reeve deepfake.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

I’m watching Shazam! Fury of the Gawds.

I’m kind of on-the-fence about the first film, as it had things I liked and things that just bugged the hell out of me. Sure, some of them are nitpicks, but they’re nitpicks that take me out of the film. On balance I’d rate it neutral to mildly negative. It’s one of those, “Check it out if there’s nothing else on” films for me.

Yeah, one or two good scenes aside, this one is complete shit.  I don’t know where to start. 

I don’t know what’s more depressing; that Black Adam was better than this or that WW84 wasn’t an accident.

 

ETA: dear god I’m only half way through this.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Rhom]

17 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I don’t know what’s more depressing; that Black Adam was better than this or that WW84 wasn’t an accident.

As terrible as you make this sound… it was Batgirl they chose to never even release.  How bad must it have been?!!!?

[Darryk]

I didn't think James Gunn was a good choice to run DCU before but after Guardians 3 my opinion of him has shot through the roof. It showed he can do emotional, somewhat dark material as well as comedy action.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

I went back and rewatched DC: League of Super Pets. Still great. I honestly think this is the best thing they’ve done in a while.

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

As terrible as you make this sound… it was Batgirl they chose to never even release.  How bad must it have been?!!!?

I saw the leaked “trailer” for Batgirl. There’s a reason it didn’t generate much buzz. It definitely had a feel of “feature-length CW show”. 

Though sometimes I fall into this trap, I don’t want to be that guy that piles on. There’s way to much of that in the CBM space and it always leaves a bad taste. I kind of feel sorry for the people involved in this because there’s no reason this couldn’t have been great. It’s probably a good thing that Shazam 2 and Batgirl have already fallen down the memory hole.

At the end of the day, these are studio driven films. If the thing ends up being an incoherent mess, you can bet the lions share of the blame lies with the producers and executives. 

That said, it looks like The Flash might open soft and I’m detecting zero buzz for Blue Beetle. It’s going to be a rough summer for WB I think.

[Myrddin]

I hear you Deadlines. There is (was?) something/someone messing up the movies at a studio level that can't be ignored. WW84, BA, BG, S2 show a pattern of poorly developed films.

I'm also in complete agreement about Shazam 2. I really enjoyed the first one (only watched it once) as light fun movie. We started watching the second one last week and stopped it about halfway to go out or something. We didn't stop it because we were bored, but later I asked if anyone wanted to finish, and no one cared enough to see how it ended.

[BigFatCoward]

Reviews out for the flash suggest it is ...ok. not what the initial hype said. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 5/30/2023 at 11:56 AM, Myrddin said:

I hear you Deadlines. There is (was?) something/someone messing up the movies at a studio level that can't be ignored. WW84, BA, BG, S2 show a pattern of poorly developed films.

I'm also in complete agreement about Shazam 2. I really enjoyed the first one (only watched it once) as light fun movie. We started watching the second one last week and stopped it about halfway to go out or something. We didn't stop it because we were bored, but later I asked if anyone wanted to finish, and no one cared enough to see how it ended.

It’s weird because the first film was so well received by audiences and critics. Word of mouth didn’t do this film any favors but why did it open so soft? It sometimes happens that a sequel isn’t as well received and doesn’t do as well commercially as the original; but -60%?!? That’s crazy. Zero buzz.

People have suggested that Shazam 2 came out too late. There might be something to that, but it’s worth noting that the highest grossing live-action and animated films of last year were sequels to films that were much older than Shazam!. Into the Spider-Verse came out the same year as Shazam! and it’s sequel looks likely to do double the box office.

[DaveSumm]

9 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Word of mouth didn’t do this film any favors but why did it open so soft? It sometimes happens that a sequel isn’t as well received and doesn’t do as well commercially as the original; but -60%?!? That’s crazy. Zero buzz.

People like to preach that movies are entertaining in their own right and shared universes shouldn’t matter, but the ticket buying public keep insisting otherwise. They announced the universe it belonged to was dead before it came out; that killed it. Combine that with Shazam 1 making no real impact (releasing alongside Endgame) and the aforementioned universe being a complete shit show … I’m not at all surprised.

Blue Beetle (aka Iron Man but Blue) will suffer the same fate, they’ve already told the audience it won’t matter. Aquaman 2 … eh, I still don’t really understand why 1 did so well so all bets are off there.

Finally watching Peacemaker and man, this shit is funny. Bodes well for the Gunniverse.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

People like to preach that movies are entertaining in their own right and shared universes shouldn’t matter, but the ticket buying public keep insisting otherwise.

Avatar 2 and Top Gun Maverick would like to have word. Minions isn’t really part of a shared universe. Same for Miles Morales’ spider-man beyond a handful of trivial cameos. Mario is a non-sequel, non- shared-universe film that was largely shat on by critics, and it might be the highest grossing film of the year. 

I could go on, but I still contend it makes little sense.

Quote

They announced the universe it belonged to was dead before it came out; that killed it. Combine that with Shazam 1 making no real impact (releasing alongside Endgame) and the aforementioned universe being a complete shit show … I’m not at all surprised.

You mean “best film since TDK” didn’t cement its place in the pop culture firmament?

Spider-Verse 1 was released the same year as Shazam! and did similar Business in cinemas. And Gunn is on record saying Shazam! Could survive the transition depending on the success of the sequel. 

[DaveSumm]

48 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Avatar 2 and Top Gun Maverick would like to have word. Minions isn’t really part of a shared universe. Same for Miles Morales’ spider-man beyond a handful of trivial cameos. Mario is a non-sequel, non- shared-universe film that was largely shat on by critics, and it might be the highest grossing film of the year. 

I could go on, but I still contend it makes little sense.

I worded that poorly to be fair … obviously there are entertaining stand alone movies. Top Gun sells itself as being an entertaining couple of hours, job done. But once you’ve started with a shared universe, those are the fans you’re attracting. Then a movie is both a movie, and another chapter in an ongoing saga. Shazam 2 has no momentum behind it because we know it isn’t going anywhere (even if Gunn said that, they can’t have planned for it in anyway). The same thing happened to the few X-Men movies that Fox spluttered out once we knew it was going to Disney; nobody cared anymore. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

47 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I worded that poorly to be fair … obviously there are entertaining stand alone movies. Top Gun sells itself as being an entertaining couple of hours, job done. But once you’ve started with a shared universe, those are the fans you’re attracting. Then a movie is both a movie, and another chapter in an ongoing saga. Shazam 2 has no momentum behind it because we know it isn’t going anywhere (even if Gunn said that, they can’t have planned for it in anyway). The same thing happened to the few X-Men movies that Fox spluttered out once we knew it was going to Disney; nobody cared anymore. 

I think this goes beyond marketing and franchise dynamics. Maybe the stand-alone live action superhero film isn’t the solid bet it once was? How many times has that been done? Maybe don’t make it so goofy? Maybe make it good? 

I also think maybe the first film was maybe overpraised or not received as well as the online aggregators would have us think. 

[SpaceChampion]

I don't think there is any indication Blue Beetle won't be part of the new DCU.  It is post-Flash anyway.  Isn't the Flash storyline suppose to justify rebooting the DCU?  So BB could be part of it, but popular misconception could keep people away regardless of whether its any good.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

I don't think there is any indication Blue Beetle won't be part of the new DCU.  It is post-Flash anyway.  Isn't the Flash storyline suppose to justify rebooting the DCU?  So BB could be part of it, but popular misconception could keep people away regardless of whether its any good.

You’re assuming there’s logic and coherence to the release dates. Still, Blue Beetle probably only connects to the other DC films in the same way Shazam did. Easter eggs, oblique references, One meaningless cameo.

blur beetle also comes near the end of a pretty crowded summer movie season. Maybe it’ll be good enough that word of mouth will carry it. Who knows?

Edited June 8, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[SpaceChampion]

I noticed there are Ezra Miller stans who hate anyone mentioning Miller's crimes.  I guess some fans come pre-groomed.

[Heartofice]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:35 PM, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Avatar 2 and Top Gun Maverick would like to have word. Minions isn’t really part of a shared universe. Same for Miles Morales’ spider-man beyond a handful of trivial cameos. Mario is a non-sequel, non- shared-universe film that was largely shat on by critics, and it might be the highest grossing film of the year. 

I think the answer here is known, marketable properties sells tickets. If you can look like you are recapturing the magic of something else it’s going to get people excited. Original Spiderverse being good is almost certainly helping the new movie as well. 
 

There might be some power in shared universes, but evidence suggests it’s not much given how many failed shared universes there are. Marvel managed to make it work but mainly because they had created a solid standard for their movies.
 

I think it’s more about wanting more of something else that was good.

[IlyaP]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I think the answer here is known, marketable properties sells tickets. If you can look like you are recapturing the magic of something else it’s going to get people excited. Original Spiderverse being good is almost certainly helping the new movie as well. 
 

There might be some power in shared universes, but evidence suggests it’s not much given how many failed shared universes there are. Marvel managed to make it work but mainly because they had created a solid standard for their movies.
 

I think it’s more about wanting more of something else that was good.

All of the above here is correct. Speaking only for myself, I'm just so tired of the multiverse shtick. It works best when it's grounded in real, dramatic stakes, as was the case with Fringe, which used the idea excellently. But everything that I've seen from DC, Marvel, etc., has just been either cameos for cameos sake (eg Doctor Strange 2) or ways to set-up future crossovers, but ones which never really further explored or talked about implications of other universes (eg the Arrowverse - mainly Supergirl and Black Lightning). 

It's just so hard to get excited about anything multiversal anymore, as the concept feels tired and under-utilised. And, it also means the narrative loop is never closed, as no story is ever fully finished or told, which lessens the dramatic stakes. Which has somehow led to me really taking more pleasure in stand-alone films, that aren't built around IP growth, and exist to simply tell a story with a defined beginning, middle, and end. (Fast X notwithstanding - as that's 100% pure cartoon silliness and a guilty pleasure.)