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DC Cinematic Universe: Let the Blames Begin


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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah I’m actually not convinced by super hero fatigue as a thing now I think about it, too many comic book movies still do well to signal an entire genre dying. Spider-Man, Joker, GotG..

Since NWH, we’ve had DC:League of super-pets, Black Adam, Thor and Ant-Man films that underperformed critically and/or commercially. Also Morbius, Shazam and Flash films that are massive bombs. Blue Beetle comes out in two months and there’s no buzz. I’m not detecting much enthusiasm for Kraven or The Marvels; though ATJ’s charisma and chiseled abs might save the former. No chance in hell The Marvels gets within a mile of Captain Marvel’s critical or commercial success.

Joker is barely a CBM; more like a character study dealing with class warfare with a thin CBM skin on top. If anything, it’s the exception that proves the rule. And, it was, like, four years ago.

I haven’t seen No Way Home, but I do know that film smashed the nostalgia pump in a way no other movie has… until The Flash. I think we’re getting into diminishing returns on that and the multiverse concept doesn’t have the novelty anymore.

15 minutes ago, JGP said:

And, zero fucks what audience and critics rated the first Shazam, it was crap. Billy Batson as Captain Marvel is a kid in a grown man's body, and they fucked the opportunity to illustrate childlike wonder and earnest idealism granted the power to act... right in the goat ass.

Goodness. And I thought I was harsh on it.

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1 minute ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

No chance in hell The Marvels gets within a mile of Captain Marvel’s critical or commercial success.

Care to wager on this?

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4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Since NWH, we’ve had DC:League of super-pets, Black Adam, Thor and Ant-Man films that underperformed critically and/or commercially. Also Morbius, Shazam and Flash films that are massive bombs. 

You can’t just list all the shit films though. Their success is related to their quality. Guardians 3 and Spider-Verse should be the end of this argument, they were both recent successes. 

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4 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

You can’t just list all the shit films though. Their success is related to their quality. Guardians 3 and Spider-Verse should be the end of this argument, they were both recent successes. 

Exactly, there were a bunch of pretty bad movies that didn’t do well and some good ones that did do well. That’s pretty much all we know. 
 

I think the bigger factor is simply audience choosiness. What you could say is that superhero fatigue is at a stage where audiences are not going to go and watch any old shit cos someone is wearing a cape, but they will watch it if it’s good. 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

You can’t just list all the shit films though. Their success is related to their quality. Guardians 3 and Spider-Verse should be the end of this argument, they were both recent successes. 

Yeah right. Like a shit CBM never made truckloads of money. I think Far From Home was one of the worst spider-man films made, and look how that turned out.

And say what you will about those other films, but DC:Pets is absolutely not shit. I’ll die on that hill.

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2 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I'm a fan of The Rock when he plays a funny guy in a jungle. I will watch a movie that has that premise without even watching the trailer. I never even considered watching a superhero movie starring him. I wonder if I'm the only one who feels that way.

Same! He's good as Hobbs as well, but I have zero interest in him as a superhero.

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Something is still off about the whole process though. Sure it was done, but they could have shelved it. They shelved Batgirl and that movie didn't have any off screen law enforcement related issues that I'm aware of...

One of my step-brothers is an insider here and he was adamant they couldn't, even though he agreed on principle it should never have been released. His estimate that the real cost of the movie could be as high as half a billion dollars when you consider every aspect of it and that it was also going to be necessary to make other parts of the larger DC universe work. They really didn't have a choice so long as they could repair Miller's image enough to not be embarrassed of releasing it. This is why I said after all the shit came out about him that they were immediately going to do the PR spin and spend him away for counseling. The studio could write off Batgirl. I don't think there was any chance the could write this project off because the reason to bin it likely isn't insurable. 

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22 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Put a pin in this. I already have a bet going with @Tywin et al. on Trumps jail time. 

At least my obviously winning bets are about to come through with @Kalnak the Magnificent and @Secretary of Eumenes are about to cash in.

What did we bet about again?

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33 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

No chance in hell The Marvels gets within a mile of Captain Marvel’s critical or commercial success.

What are you basing that on? Has there even been a trailer? 

18 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Exactly, there were a bunch of pretty bad movies that didn’t do well and some good ones that did do well. That’s pretty much all we know. 
 

I think the bigger factor is simply audience choosiness. What you could say is that superhero fatigue is at a stage where audiences are not going to go and watch any old shit cos someone is wearing a cape, but they will watch it if it’s good. 

I would add that these movies come out on Disney+ or whatever so quickly now. Unless a movie is a huge event thing I'm personally not bothering to go see it. I heard Guardians 3 was good but it's nothing that won't wait till I can watch it at home. 

18 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And say what you will about those other films, but DC:Pets is absolutely not shit. I’ll die on that hill.

Kinda an odd example though isn't it? I haven't seen it but isn't a kids movie only sorta DCEU related? 

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2 hours ago, JGP said:

To this, the point of these massive IPs [Star Wars, Marvel, DC, etc] or even very successful literary ones with a built in fan base queued for adaptation [ASoIaF, Harry Potter, etc] is studio executives see that as money in the bank. But Batgirl, she ain't that [maybe OG Batgirl, or Cassandra Kane, but you got to build up for that imo] Flash though, being a founding member of the JL, perhaps they thought that would get it over the hump with the fucked up star, relatively shitty ROI on their last half dozen efforts, et so on. Kids t-ball field vs major ballpark between the two budget wise as well, which plays a roll. When you choose what and whatnot to write down, sure you can hedge your bets but you're still gambling.

Another issue is when a film doesn't meet box office expectations it doesn't feel like WB is doing proper post mortems. 

Sorry. No. @Tywin et al.'s info/theory on return of sunken cost vs. image PR not withstanding, there is zero way the Flash IP is in any way stronger than Batgirl.  Equal? I may argue that, but if you ask a layman with no specific comic book knowledge if they could suss out more about the Flash or about Batgirl, Batgirl is going to win almost every time. She's part of a much larger, much more popular global IP.

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10 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sorry. No. @Tywin et al.'s info/theory on return of sunken cost vs. image PR not withstanding, there is zero way the Flash IP is in any way stronger than Batgirl.  Equal? I may argue that, but if you ask a layman with no specific comic book knowledge if they could suss out more about the Flash or about Batgirl, Batgirl is going to win almost every time. She's part of a much larger, much more popular global IP.

Ty didn't say anything that hasn't been said lol

And you don't have to be sorry, we can disagree yo. Batfam notwithstanding, Batgirl doesn't have the same cred Flash does. And if it was a bit of a clunker? Yeah, it'll get the axe before Flash, every time.

Edited by JGP
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8 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sorry. No. @Tywin et al.'s info/theory on return of sunken cost vs. image PR not withstanding, there is zero way the Flash IP is in any way stronger than Batgirl.  Equal? I may argue that, but if you ask a layman with no specific comic book knowledge if they could suss out more about the Flash or about Batgirl, Batgirl is going to win almost every time. She's part of a much larger, much more popular global IP.

I doubt that. The Flash isn't the biggest brand, but Batgirl is even less so for people who don't read comics or care about the DC universe. 

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59 minutes ago, RumHam said:

What are you basing that on? Has there even been a trailer? 

Muh guts. You wait and see.

Quote

Kinda an odd example though isn't it? I haven't seen it but isn't a kids movie only sorta DCEU related? 

yeah, I’d agree. I only mentioned it because spider verse was brought up. My pessimism about the CBM genre doesn’t extend to animated films, which have generally been good and there are much fewer of them. There’s still some room to play in that space I think.

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4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Muh guts. You wait and see.

You forgetting Kamala Khan? Monica Rambeau? Derp. I don't know man, might actually be your guts after all, what with you talking out your ass like that :p

Put some money on it.

Edited by JGP
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20 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sorry. No. @Tywin et al.'s info/theory on return of sunken cost vs. image PR not withstanding, there is zero way the Flash IP is in any way stronger than Batgirl.  Equal? I may argue that, but if you ask a layman with no specific comic book knowledge if they could suss out more about the Flash or about Batgirl, Batgirl is going to win almost every time. She's part of a much larger, much more popular global IP.

Are you factoring the more recent TV iterations, though? CW The Flash had a long run compared to the shitshow that has been their Batgirl. I would expect The Flash fandom has been expanded in recent years.

Edited by Corvinus85
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9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I doubt that. The Flash isn't the biggest brand, but Batgirl is even less so for people who don't read comics or care about the DC universe. 

You show a picture of Batgirl and the Flash to people who know nothing about either overall, people will be able to get Batgirl that much easier because she's dressed like Batman, who is a globally recognized IP. From that, they're going to be able to infer what's going on. 

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2 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Are you factoring the more recent TV iterations, though? CW The Flash had a long run compared to the shitshow that has been their Batgirl. I would expect The Flash fandom has been expanded in recent years.

I cam agree with you there. But at the same time, Batgirl is part of a larger IP that is recognized around the globe. Despite the successes and failures of the CW, a layman in Europe looking at an image of Batgirl is going to recognize her as Batgirl, even if they know nothing about her. For Flash? You're just as likely to get an answer of, "Lightning Man" as much as, "Flash"...

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7 minutes ago, JGP said:

Put some money on it.

The first Captain Marvel did $1.1 billion, at a time when MCU franchise hype was at an all time high. If The Marvels crosses $750, I’ll gladly eat my words.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

What did we bet about again?

Whether or not trump would do time in prison for the boxes situation.

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Just now, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The first Captain Marvel did $1.1 billion, at a time when MCU franchise hype was at an all time high. If The Marvels crosses $750, I’ll gladly eat my words.

Van Damme moving the posts already heh

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2 minutes ago, JGP said:

Van Damme moving the posts already heh

How so? I said, “No chance in hell The Marvels gets within a mile of Captain Marvel’s critical or commercial success.” I never said it was going to fail. 

Down $380 million from the previous film? I’d say that qualifies as “a mile”.

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