Curled Finger Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Sometimes you just tire of waiting. Sometimes it is simply wearisome rehashing the same old things. The Winds of Winter has written itself 5 or 6 times in the archives of this forum and conversations hidden in private back communication. I know. I have one that lasted over 2 years with 2 of the best thinkers, story tellers and researchers. It’s no different than what we do in General and the TWOW forums every day. But it seems to me that we have done some putting the horse in front of the cart where TWOW actually will end and A Dream of Spring will begin. We know from the gift chapters that certain events may take place (because TWOW isn’t out and this guy changes his mind all the time). We have all sorts of great set up and foreshadowing and hints that stories and characters will end up in certain places with certain items or hands around their throats, but is that supposed to happen in Winds? I don’t think we’ll be seeing the Battle for Dawn in Winds, I’m not sure Dany will even make it all the way to Westeros in Winds, so a good many things aren’t going to happen in my mind in TWOW. Yet it’s to be a giant book, monstrous, GARGANTUAN. Over in the TWOW forum I am assured it won’t be due to expansive descriptions of feasts. No less than four opening battles will take time and room, fine. Tightening up all that Riverlands business will take time and room, fine also. This Vale stuff? It’s not a thing, it’s stuff, many things, many possible things, whole book potential. Kings Landing, surely more whole book potential, same with Mereen. Dorne? The Reach? Euron? Does Euron make it to A Dream of Spring? Is The Reach even left after Euron? Does anyone care what happens in the Stormlands? I imagine there will no longer be a POV in Bravos so someone had better make friends with Tychos. Will the Night Fort be restored? Will we see Gorne’s Way? Will we get any clues about The Others or will TWOW be about killing off all these political bothers? Do you want to see Little Finger and Varys die horrible deaths? I could see Little Finger and Varys both biting the big one, but I can’t see Jon getting Euron’s armor in TWOW. This is not the end game book where all will be revealed along with the big show down. Winds is the culling of the herd, merging of storylines, solidification of story. Make no mistake, this will be great story. It won’t be A Dream of Spring is all I’m saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I may not even read the books when released, I just want to know what happens to Jon, Stannis, Sansa and Val... and well, Tormund as well. Will he finally get that moustached lady he so wants? Greatest cliffhanger of the entire series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 We will have the answers to the immediate questions. Some (minor) characters will die (more Freys). But the big questions will remain. What do the Others want? What the Song of Ice and Fire mean? How this insane bloodshed will end -if it ends-? Who will see the Dawn? ... Speculation for the next book will not abate, if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said: We will have the answers to the immediate questions. Some (minor) characters will die (more Freys). But the big questions will remain. What do the Others want? What the Song of Ice and Fire mean? How this insane bloodshed will end -if it ends-? Who will see the Dawn? ... Speculation for the next book will not abate, if anything. Yep, it's those big questions. I am hoping for clues though, but it sure will good to get all this other stuff behind us. And I am looking forward to seeing how some of the things I don't really see being a big deal actually turn out being big deals. I hope TWOW is fun if nothing else because it really shouldn't be much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 One thing I can definitely see is there is going to be a need for consolidation of many stories and a winding up of others. There are too many characters in too many places. Whenever I try to do a chapter allocation by character, I have a hard time ending up with less than about 90, which won't work for one volume. So, I expect the Stark POVs to start finding one another, or at least other POVs, Brienne for example. By the end of the book, I expect them to be in pretty much the same place. I expect the younger Starks to leave their current hideouts fairly soon and start making some noise. The Vale and Braavos are important mainly because Sansa and Arya are there. When they leave, their importance will likely diminish noticably. On the other hand, Sam and Davos have been sent to locations I expect to have real importance; sufficient to have eyes on. Something is going to happen in Oldtown, either with Euron or the Citadel, or both. And Davos is headed north because he's needed to report on something there, whether at Skagos, Hardhome, or the Far North. If GRRM wants to get Rickon back into the story, there are easier ways to do so than sending a POV to retrieve him. The Battle of Fire might take a few chapters. The Battle of Blackwater, the biggest one yet, took six chapters with three POVs so I would expect Meereen to be about the same. Winterfell will likely take less because there is no longer a POV there. I expect the Others to cross the Wall and for Daenerys to make it at least to the Narrow Sea by the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I haven't been anticipating Winds for that long so I am at high levels of hype knowing there are only (and I use that word with all its irony) 500 pages left. His original plan was A Game of Thrones, Dance with Dragons, Winds of Winter, with The War of the Five Kings first, the Dothraki invasion second, and the Battle of the Dawn last. I think he'll do the Dothraki invasion this book: Dany has never been the central character of a book (having the most POV chapters), and I think it's probably her time. A Dream of Spring will be the climax, no doubt, when the big big battle happens, but I do think Winds will adequately set up all the players for that final showdown, and I do think we'll get it in 2023 or 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 I hope speculation never dies down as that is part of the fun. I do wonder if all the POVs will be needed once all the characters begin merging. We will have Jamie and Brienne together again then I imagine Brienne will join another major character. Much as I love Brienne, I'm not certain her POV will be necessary. Same with Melisandre. We were fine with out her POV for nearly 4 books. I was personally fine without the Arianne chapters though I do understand their value, I just don't care for the princess. While I enjoy all the Ironborn not so much with Dorne. Perhaps it's the wait, but the whole Aegon deal has grown stale for me. At this point the Aegon/Varys/Doran/Arianne plot is as interesting as gum on the bottom of a shoe. Hotah, on the other hand, is a fun quest story and will be entertaining, maybe tell us something about ancient House Dayne, maybe even Dawn and what Sword of the Morning/Evening means. That's worth waiting for and may actually impact end game. Aegon? Psh. Greyscale epidemic at best. Sandsnakes in Kings Landing, oh yah. Waiting just to read Cersei's take on that. I want to see what happens at Winterfell once a Stark gets back there. Is a Stark in Winterfell putting the horse ahead of the cart for Winds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sword Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: I hope speculation never dies down as that is part of the fun. I do wonder if all the POVs will be needed once all the characters begin merging. We will have Jamie and Brienne together again then I imagine Brienne will join another major character. Much as I love Brienne, I'm not certain her POV will be necessary. Same with Melisandre. We were fine with out her POV for nearly 4 books. I was personally fine without the Arianne chapters though I do understand their value, I just don't care for the princess. While I enjoy all the Ironborn not so much with Dorne. Perhaps it's the wait, but the whole Aegon deal has grown stale for me. At this point the Aegon/Varys/Doran/Arianne plot is as interesting as gum on the bottom of a shoe. Hotah, on the other hand, is a fun quest story and will be entertaining, maybe tell us something about ancient House Dayne, maybe even Dawn and what Sword of the Morning/Evening means. That's worth waiting for and may actually impact end game. Aegon? Psh. Greyscale epidemic at best. Sandsnakes in Kings Landing, oh yah. Waiting just to read Cersei's take on that. I want to see what happens at Winterfell once a Stark gets back there. Is a Stark in Winterfell putting the horse ahead of the cart for Winds? I am in complete agreement here. The speculation will never die. It is a coping mechanism for all of us who are waiting for the next book. Haha, It give us something to do as we wait. The consolidation of POVs will start in the next book and Winterfell will be where a lot of them will end up imo. I am eagerly waiting on info on House Dayne, but the rest of Dorne isn't as interesting to me. I like the wrench that Aegon is throwing into the story though. He has to be a Blackfyre in my mind... but a dragon is a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 10 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: I haven't been anticipating Winds for that long so I am at high levels of hype knowing there are only (and I use that word with all its irony) 500 pages left. His original plan was A Game of Thrones, Dance with Dragons, Winds of Winter, with The War of the Five Kings first, the Dothraki invasion second, and the Battle of the Dawn last. I think he'll do the Dothraki invasion this book: Dany has never been the central character of a book (having the most POV chapters), and I think it's probably her time. A Dream of Spring will be the climax, no doubt, when the big big battle happens, but I do think Winds will adequately set up all the players for that final showdown, and I do think we'll get it in 2023 or 2024. It's been a while and this guy changes his mind all the time but at one point Martin said Dany would sail for Westeros by the end of TWOW. It's a bad bet to hang your hat on anything you remember him saying off hand years ago, but it sticks. You have a bit of what I have it appears. Where to draw the line on expectations. You're thinking Dany will get to Westeros. Gads that would be wonderful. Why do you call it Dothraki invasion, though? Just curious. That's a great place to end though, set up players for the final showdown. What's involved in that final showdown? Euron? Cersei? Gathering of swords? Jorah finally getting laid and leaving Dany alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 There are too many POVs just now. I cannot wait for the purge. Barristan, Areo, Arianne...they can all go permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 12 hours ago, Nevets said: One thing I can definitely see is there is going to be a need for consolidation of many stories and a winding up of others. There are too many characters in too many places. Whenever I try to do a chapter allocation by character, I have a hard time ending up with less than about 90, which won't work for one volume. So, I expect the Stark POVs to start finding one another, or at least other POVs, Brienne for example. By the end of the book, I expect them to be in pretty much the same place. I expect the younger Starks to leave their current hideouts fairly soon and start making some noise. The Vale and Braavos are important mainly because Sansa and Arya are there. When they leave, their importance will likely diminish noticably. On the other hand, Sam and Davos have been sent to locations I expect to have real importance; sufficient to have eyes on. Something is going to happen in Oldtown, either with Euron or the Citadel, or both. And Davos is headed north because he's needed to report on something there, whether at Skagos, Hardhome, or the Far North. If GRRM wants to get Rickon back into the story, there are easier ways to do so than sending a POV to retrieve him. The Battle of Fire might take a few chapters. The Battle of Blackwater, the biggest one yet, took six chapters with three POVs so I would expect Meereen to be about the same. Winterfell will likely take less because there is no longer a POV there. I expect the Others to cross the Wall and for Daenerys to make it at least to the Narrow Sea by the end. By now I hardly need to make commentary on your replies so I just highlighted the highlights. Always great stuff, Nevets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: There are too many POVs just now. I cannot wait for the purge. Barristan, Areo, Arianne...they can all go permanently. Blasphemer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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