James Steller Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Would the Targaryens have embraced the faith of the Old Gods to rule over their First Men subjects? Would their incest have been as much of an issue? Would the Wall still be well manned into the events of ASOIAF? There are a lot of questions to be raised with this scenario, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 5 hours ago, James Steller said: Would the Targaryens have embraced the faith of the Old Gods to rule over their First Men subjects? Would their incest have been as much of an issue? Would the Wall still be well manned into the events of ASOIAF? There would be way more Children of the Forest, the Targs would have embraced the faith of the Old Gods if Aegon had still been the Conqueror, and the Wall would definitely be just as well-manned, if not more considering the Andal Lydden-descended Lannisters don't seem to care that much about maintaining the wall that the relatives of Lann the Clever helped build. The incest would still be an issue probably, the First Men don't like brother-sister stuff either. Nymeria would have still married Davos Dayne instead of Morgan Martell, and the Dayne house would have become the House Nymeros Dayne. The Durrandons and the Gardeners would have less Andal blood but basically the same power, and the Royces would still be the largest power in the Reach. The Tyrells wouldn't exist: the Hightowers would not be as closely associated with the High Septon and would thus need a new source of political ambition, so they would push harder to rule the Reach in the absence of the Gardeners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said: the Hightowers would not be as closely associated with the High Septon and would thus need a new source of political ambition, so they would push harder to rule the Reach in the absence of the Gardeners. That is a very good point! The Hightowers would absolutely have become the Lords Paramount of the Reach post-Conquest, assuming they were still smart enough to open their gates and welcome Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grey Wolf Strikes Back Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 There'd be a lot more blondes in Essos, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 On 3/23/2023 at 4:44 PM, James Steller said: Would the Targaryens have embraced the faith of the Old Gods to rule over their First Men subjects? Would their incest have been as much of an issue? Would the Wall still be well manned into the events of ASOIAF? There are a lot of questions to be raised with this scenario, to be sure. Then old god worship with greenseeing and warging is widespread. The targs never get to rule or dominate westeros as these 2 powers from the old ways negate the powers of dragoms alone (flying along an suddenly your dragon wants to eat you or to dive at full speed towards the ground too fast to pull up!!). They settle dragonstone and intermarry bringing the very specific warg like bond to dragons, fire resitance and foresight dreams that comes with their blood into potential greenseers and regular wargs...basicaly all the qualities we assume are in jon snows bloodline to make him the choosen one are widespread. If the others return ravens ,glass candles and weirwoods carry word like a fantasy version of internet and cctv..then3 and a horde of dragon riders from all 7 kingdoms are dispatched to burn them to slush! Possibly backed by infantry containing giants, direwolfs and maybe krakens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 No Andals 'ey? Probably wouldn't have a need for the Targs or their conquest. The Andals catch a lot of crap and I give a lot of that crap to them because they were by and large punks with all that disturbing the peace. It did seem like the 1st Men and everyone on Westeros had a good thing going before those lousy forward thinking expansionist bastards got there. A lot of needless killing of culture, religion, politics, trade and tradition. What the Andals brought was the future and whole new civilization to Westeros and it wasn't all bad. Thanks to Peremore's pets there can be a maester in every castle and a scribe in every pub and wide spread language, medicine and education. Swords and cups and armor last a lot longer thanks to Andal technology. Despite their warring greedy bastard selves they brought a lot of good in the worst possible ways to Westeros. I figure if the 1st men and Westeros at large was doing all that great in the 1st place the Andals would have got their asses handed to them. The Andals won just as the Targaryens handed the blended culture of the 1st Men and Andals' asses to them. Now it's further blended. When Dany comes Westeros has the potential to become a truly blended nation of all sorts of people. Somewhere down the line all those people from all those places with all those ideas will make an amazing Westeros where minds matter more than blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 49 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: No Andals 'ey? Probably wouldn't have a need for the Targs or their conquest. The Andals catch a lot of crap and I give a lot of that crap to them because they were by and large punks with all that disturbing the peace. It did seem like the 1st Men and everyone on Westeros had a good thing going before those lousy forward thinking expansionist bastards got there. A lot of needless killing of culture, religion, politics, trade and tradition. What the Andals brought was the future and whole new civilization to Westeros and it wasn't all bad. Thanks to Peremore's pets there can be a maester in every castle and a scribe in every pub and wide spread language, medicine and education. Swords and cups and armor last a lot longer thanks to Andal technology. Despite their warring greedy bastard selves they brought a lot of good in the worst possible ways to Westeros. I figure if the 1st men and Westeros at large was doing all that great in the 1st place the Andals would have got their asses handed to them. The Andals won just as the Targaryens handed the blended culture of the 1st Men and Andals' asses to them. Now it's further blended. When Dany comes Westeros has the potential to become a truly blended nation of all sorts of people. Somewhere down the line all those people from all those places with all those ideas will make an amazing Westeros where minds matter more than blood. Nice to hear the colonialists chiming in, heh. joking aside, I didn’t intend to act like the Andals were all bad, nor that the First Men were all good. But for all the progress that happened technologically, it clearly came at a high price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 I don't think so. I don't even think that the Targaryen would invaded the mainland if it were full of firstfolk (and children of the forest, and giants and all). Andal religion was at least essosi', something the Targaryen could cling to more or less. But the old gods are just alien to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 24 minutes ago, Jon Fossoway said: I don't think so. I don't even think that the Targaryen would invaded the mainland if it were full of firstfolk (and children of the forest, and giants and all). Andal religion was at least essosi', something the Targaryen could cling to more or less. But the old gods are just alien to them. The Valyrians thought themselves gods. I doubt the old gods made a difference to them in the least. It was only that the Faith was so powerful that Aegon had anything to do with them in the 1st place. A show of assimilation of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 32 minutes ago, James Steller said: Nice to hear the colonialists chiming in, heh. joking aside, I didn’t intend to act like the Andals were all bad, nor that the First Men were all good. But for all the progress that happened technologically, it clearly came at a high price. Progress always comes at a price. You didn't come off like that at all. There is no nice respectful way to take over a place and its people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Curled Finger said: Thanks to Peremore's pets there can be a maester in every castle and a scribe in every pub and wide spread language, medicine and education. Was Peremore an Andal? Or it is possible that he lived b4 Andals came to Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 19 hours ago, Curled Finger said: No Andals 'ey? Probably wouldn't have a need for the Targs or their conquest. The Andals catch a lot of crap and I give a lot of that crap to them because they were by and large punks with all that disturbing the peace. It did seem like the 1st Men and everyone on Westeros had a good thing going before those lousy forward thinking expansionist bastards got there. A lot of needless killing of culture, religion, politics, trade and tradition. What the Andals brought was the future and whole new civilization to Westeros and it wasn't all bad. Thanks to Peremore's pets there can be a maester in every castle and a scribe in every pub and wide spread language, medicine and education. Swords and cups and armor last a lot longer thanks to Andal technology. Despite their warring greedy bastard selves they brought a lot of good in the worst possible ways to Westeros. I figure if the 1st men and Westeros at large was doing all that great in the 1st place the Andals would have got their asses handed to them. The Andals won just as the Targaryens handed the blended culture of the 1st Men and Andals' asses to them. Now it's further blended. When Dany comes Westeros has the potential to become a truly blended nation of all sorts of people. Somewhere down the line all those people from all those places with all those ideas will make an amazing Westeros where minds matter more than blood. Andals could have introduced medicine etc without all the invasion and mass killings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 6 hours ago, Loose Bolt said: Was Peremore an Andal? Or it is possible that he lived b4 Andals came to Westeros. Thought about that after posted. Could have been pre Andal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 46 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: Andals could have introduced medicine etc without all the invasion and mass killings Maybe. I suppose the 1st Men could have settled without burning all the weirwoods, too. I think the story of Aegon's conquest makes a good illustration of how difficult it is to unite or dominate a place without force. He offered to bring them on board and most of them gave him the finger. They knew he had dragons. He took over this giant place with 2 women and 3 dragons. Eventually they all got on board, but it took time and plenty of force. Aegon wasn't even trying to expand (much). The Andals were looking for a new home for thousands of people. I doubt the big problem was burning weirwoods, it was taking that land and moving in and bringing new ways and language to a settled place and people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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