Star Trek: Attack of Shatner's Toupee Tribble

[RumHam]

28 minutes ago, sifth said:

The "in universe" reason why they look so different in season 1 of Discovery, is that Klingons apparently cut their hair, when they go to war. Which to be honest, is more proof that the creators of that show, never have seen Star Trek before, since we've seen Klingons go to war many times, without this ever being the case. It's funny that we live in a world where wiki exists and it would only take about ten minutes worth of research to find this info.

I know the producers said that, but even on Discovery aren't they bald from the start. Like the one klingon facetimes the others and is like "Lets do a war!" and they're all already bald. 

[sifth]

17 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I know the producers said that, but even on Discovery aren't they bald from the start. Like the one klingon facetimes the others and is like "Lets do a war!" and they're all already bald. 

Dam you might be right. It’s been a while since I saw season 1 of Discovery. It’s not a very easy season to rewatch. 

[Jaxom 1974]

C'mon. That was built for me. I absolutely enjoyed it.

Spoiler

It didn't fire on every cylinder and the use of the Borgified Fleet obviously is problematic in a general sense...

Did I expect them to go all Return of Jedi there? No. And while it was bonkers, there was at least some general explanation in the status of the Cube. Sure there was some missing exposition, but I was generally fine with it.

Since I know a show such as this gives pretty much every character plot armor, I'm less concerned for whether they survive versus how the stakes are presented. Star Trek is never going to be a show where any character can gonat any time a la Breaking Bad or Gane of Thrones. It is and always has been, dealing with comic book rules to an extent. Does that mean there isn't room in Trek for a show like Andor? Of course there is! And when that comes along, I'll check it out.

A lot was left open ended there at the end, and it's obvious they did it for the hopes of a new series. 

And the stinger! 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

C'mon. That was built for me. I absolutely enjoyed it.

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It didn't fire on every cylinder and the use of the Borgified Fleet obviously is problematic in a general sense...

Did I expect them to go all Return of Jedi there? No. And while it was bonkers, there was at least some general explanation in the status of the Cube. Sure there was some missing exposition, but I was generally fine with it.

Since I know a show such as this gives pretty much every character plot armor, I'm less concerned for whether they survive versus how the stakes are presented. Star Trek is never going to be a show where any character can gonat any time a la Breaking Bad or Gane of Thrones. It is and always has been, dealing with comic book rules to an extent. Does that mean there isn't room in Trek for a show like Andor? Of course there is! And when that comes along, I'll check it out.

A lot was left open ended there at the end, and it's obvious they did it for the hopes of a new series. 

And the stinger! 

 

Spoiler

I really enjoyed season 1 of “Strange New Worlds”… (I have a deep and abiding love for “Lower Decks”) but Picard feels like a game where a bunch of different writers continue each others work with the only rule being… you can’t kill the major TNG characters.  This had so much potential and it feels squandered for nostalgia’s sake…

 

[Jaxom 1974]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

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I really enjoyed season 1 of “Strange New Worlds”… (I have a deep and abiding love for “Lower Decks”) but Picard feels like a game where a bunch of different writers continue each others work with the only rule being… you can’t kill the major TNG characters.  This had so much potential and it feels squandered for nostalgia’s sake…

 

Spoiler

That's the point! TNG, and even now to a lesser extent with SNW, you're never going to actually lose a primary character unless they're leaving the show before it ends.  Star Trek shows are not structured for that kind of drama. Even DS9, at the end, didn't kill anyone, despite the drama of a war story.

I didn't expect to lose a single one of the old TNG crew in a sacrifice of any kind. That was never what this was. I'm okay with that. 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

24 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

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That's the point! TNG, and even now to a lesser extent with SNW, you're never going to actually lose a primary character unless they're leaving the show before it ends.  Star Trek shows are not structured for that kind of drama. Even DS9, at the end, didn't kill anyone, despite the drama of a war story.

I didn't expect to lose a single one of the old TNG crew in a sacrifice of any kind. That was never what this was. I'm okay with that. 

 

Spoiler

I’m too old for plot armor.  It makes me yawn…

 

[Jaxom 1974]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

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I’m too old for plot armor.  It makes me yawn…

 

Thrn this just isn't the type of style of show you should be investing your time in.

(You're not really much older than me...I'm good with it though...  )

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

51 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Thrn this just isn't the type of style of show you should be investing your time in.

(You're not really much older than me...I'm good with it though...  )

I’m 52 as of last week…

[Werthead]

Star Trek only kills characters off when they are leaving unexpectedly (Yar, Dax) or if they're second-tier characters whose story purpose is done (Gowron, Winn, Sarek) or if they are blatantly going to bring them back later on (Spock). Trip in Enterprise was a bit of an outlier in that regard (killed in the finale for pointless shock value) but everyone so utterly loathed that, it was never going to fly again (and Matalas was a writer and production assistant on Enterprise).

This interview indicates the finale was originally more bonkers: Janeway and Harry Kim were in it and they'd have found that Ro had survived, but the producer (Kurtzman?) said, "This isn't fucking Avengers: Endgame, cut this out."

Edited April 20, 2023 by Werthead

[Jaxom 1974]

27 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Star Trek only kills characters off when they are leaving unexpectedly (Yar, Dax) or if they're second-tier characters whose story purpose is done (Gowron, Winn, Sarek) or if they are blatantly going to bring them back later on (Spock). Trip in Enterprise was a bit of an outlier in that regard (killed in the finale for pointless shock value) but everyone so utterly loathed that, it was never going to fly again (and Matalas was a writer and production assistant on Enterprise).

This interview indicates the finale was originally more bonkers: Janeway and Harry Kim were in it and they'd have found that Ro had survived, but the producer (Kurtzman?) said, "This isn't fucking Avengers: Endgame, cut this out."

Trip's death would have been reworked, or not been real, is my guess if there'd been another season...of course, the novels reworked it to have his death be a Section 31 fake out, but eh...

And not having Janeway, and/or a DS9 cast member feels like a miss here. Because this season kinda has been a little bit of Endgame in its way. But, if there is a Legacy show in reality, then that might be a better way to work in older characters. 

[Werthead]

Interesting choice.

Spoiler

For the first time since the Enterprise-A, and there were extenuating circumstances, the current Enterprise is not representative of the most cutting-edge Starfleet ship design. Every one of the ships from the NX-01 through the F (excepting the A, which was a straight replacement for the 1701) was the most advanced Federation ship of its day, often the biggest as well, often serving as the Federation flagship.

The G is a step back from that. It's a smaller ship, and significantly weaker in terms of weapons and shields, although it is blisteringly fast. An interesting choice, even if it's a bodge job similar to the A and they renamed another ship to fill the gap until another, cutting-edge ship can step up later on as the H.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

They totally...

Spoiler

...made a Millenium Falcon out of the Enterprise D.

And I'm one hundred percent here for it. 

[sifth]

I'm not going to lie, that end and that post credit scene made me very happy. They almost feel like a massive middle finger to season 2 of this show, which is something I approve.

[Rippounet]

Spoiler

Well, it ended on a high note, I'll give it that, but it never managed to draw me in. The obvious plot armor of all characters just didn't work with a finale that was mostly about shooting stuff. The StarWars vibe didn't quite work for me. And there were quite a few minor mistakes that distracted from the story.

It ended up driving the point home that The Orville is a better successor show to TNG than Picard. Which is a waste.
Only now do I realize I'd much rather have watched a show about retired admiral Jean-Luc Picard being sent on crucial diplomatic missions for the Federation on ships captained by some of his old crew (with lots of guest stars). And when shit hit the fan, Picard would have called on this small friendly fleet to neutralize those who couldn't be reasoned with... or find out-of-the-box science-cy solutions to solve inter-galactic conflicts...

The massive problem of this show is that the characters seem to only grow at the very end with Beverly and Seven being promoted. Before the show, Geordi was the only one not having been stuck in some kind of weird stasis, and then commanding a museum wasn't exactly exciting (though it proved the main plot-moving device).
It's almost as if the writers deliberately avoided thinking about what the characters should have become (wtf didn't Riker make admiral already?), because they didn't want to base their story on that. Yet, it would have made for a far more optimistic feel and forced them to come up with some far better stories.
It's a pity they passed on the opportunity to explore the careers of our character and built convoluted plots to avoid exploring the Federation. I do love these characters, but because of what they embody in a fictional universe.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Rippounet

[sifth]

10 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

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Well, it ended on a high note, I'll give it that, but it never managed to draw me in. The obvious plot armor of all characters just didn't work with a finale that was mostly about shooting stuff. The StarWars vibe didn't quite work for me. And there were quite a few minor mistakes that distracted from the story.

It ended up driving the point home that The Orville is a better successor show to TNG than Picard. Which is a waste.
Only now do I realize I'd much rather have watched a show about retired admiral Jean-Luc Picard being sent on crucial diplomatic missions for the Federation on ships captained by some of his old crew (with lots of guest stars). And when shit hit the fan, Picard would have called on this small friendly fleet to neutralize those who couldn't be reasoned with... or find out-of-the-box science-cy solutions to solve inter-galactic conflicts...

The massive problem of this show is that the characters seem to only grow at the very end with Beverly and Seven being promoted. Before the show, Geordi was the only one not having been stuck in some kind of weird stasis, and then commanding a museum wasn't exactly exciting (though it proved the main plot-moving device).
It's almost as if the writers deliberately avoided thinking about what the characters should have become (wtf didn't Riker make admiral already?), because they didn't want to base their story on that. Yet, it would have made for a far more optimistic feel and forced them to come up with some far better stories.
It's a pity they passed on the opportunity to explore the careers of our character and built convoluted plots to avoid exploring the Federation. I do love these characters, but because of what they embody in a fictional universe.

 

On the plus side, it was a much more optimistic future, than the one we got in All Good Things, where everyone grew apart and never spoke to each other. What can I say, I'm a sucker for happy endings.

[Werthead]

This whole season was basically Star Trek: The Force Awakens. Semi-nonsensical plot, poor attention paid to previous continuity and worldbuilding, questionably mystery box approach to storytelling, new ship designs that are a lazy retread of old ones, and a promising-but-not-fully-developed new cast to hand things off to. But there's also a lot of joy in seeing the old gang back in action and what it lacks in brains it does try to make up for in heart (and fanservice of varying levels of cheese). I would say it really weakened the Borg, but actually the fact that the Borg were a pathetic last vestige of their former self made that a reasonable point, and as far as I'm concerned the "real" Borg haven't appeared since Best of Both Worlds, as they had to nerf them so hard afterwards to make any kind of victory over them even vaguely realistic (whether that's Ron Moore and Brannon Braga's fault for not being more imaginative or Michael Piller's for making the Borg far too powerful in Best of Both Worlds is another question), so that ship had long since sailed.

Like The Force Awakens and the likes of Pacific Rim, it works on a goofy, "park your brain in neutral and go with it," level. Unlike those two things, though, it's ~10 hours long, which makes it a bit more of a challenge to rewatch later on when you need something simple and easy.

I would say it also gives the cast a much better send-off than Nemesis, which I think is near the bare bottom level of what people were expecting from the show.

[Denvek]

19 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This whole season was basically Star Trek: The Force Awakens. Semi-nonsensical plot, poor attention paid to previous continuity and worldbuilding, questionably mystery box approach to storytelling, new ship designs that are a lazy retread of old ones, and a promising-but-not-fully-developed new cast to hand things off to. But there's also a lot of joy in seeing the old gang back in action and what it lacks in brains it does try to make up for in heart (and fanservice of varying levels of cheese). I would say it really weakened the Borg, but actually the fact that the Borg were a pathetic last vestige of their former self made that a reasonable point, and as far as I'm concerned the "real" Borg haven't appeared since Best of Both Worlds, as they had to nerf them so hard afterwards to make any kind of victory over them even vaguely realistic (whether that's Ron Moore and Brannon Braga's fault for not being more imaginative or Michael Piller's for making the Borg far too powerful in Best of Both Worlds is another question), so that ship had long since sailed.

Like The Force Awakens and the likes of Pacific Rim, it works on a goofy, "park your brain in neutral and go with it," level. Unlike those two things, though, it's ~10 hours long, which makes it a bit more of a challenge to rewatch later on when you need something simple and easy.

I would say it also gives the cast a much better send-off than Nemesis, which I think is near the bare bottom level of what people were expecting from the show.

I didn't have a problem with the Borg weakness either - the implication to me was that this was the remnant that had survived their defeat at the end of Voyager.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

22 minutes ago, Denvek said:

I didn't have a problem with the Borg weakness either - the implication to me was that this was the remnant that had survived their defeat at the end of Voyager.

Was season 2 of Picard just Picard’s fever dream then?

[RumHam]

I still haven't gotten to Picard's finale. Prodigy is just better. I even don't hate jankem(?) anymore.

Edited April 21, 2023 by RumHam

[Jaxom 1974]

14 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Was season 2 of Picard just Picard’s fever dream then?

Let's say...yes? If helps you? I mean, despite flaws, it feel like Terry Matalas forged ahead with this season of Picard with the intention of actually giving the TNG crew a send off, yet also laying the groundwork to move Trek forward. With a show, maybe, that deals with what's next, rather than playing within an already established time frame. There were successes and there were questionable choices.  

I mean, I've got some ideas about what to do next, if they want to listen to me...