Was there a reason given for why Joffrey hates Renly so much?

[Craving Peaches]

31 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

For those of us who are Renly fans, I think it started there.

Ha! Bold assumption that I even needed that much. I just liked him because he was hot and had cool armour. Laughing at Joffrey was the cherry on top.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Ha! Bold assumption that I even needed that much. I just liked him because he was hot and had cool armour. Laughing at Joffrey was the cherry on top.

That whole scene when we're first introduced to Renly is honestly one of my favorites. Barristan and Renly throwing light-hearted shade at each other.

Quote

"Barristan the Old, you mean. Don't flatter him too sweetly, child, he thinks overmuch of himself already."

You're so right, babe, call him out  And I relate to him in that he laughs at his own jokes. (And is always the first one to.)

[GZ Bloodraven]

17 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Homophobia in the books is not really apparent, at least nothing like in the show or RL. And considering absent Abrahamic monotheistic religions taking hold in this world homophobia isn’t really a thing here either…wasn’t in most pre-Christian/Islamic western cultures, wasn’t in most eastern cultures, just another gift from monotheism to the world…it shouldn’t be so I doubt that was a major factor, or at least not a cause. Joff might have had a go though, he would certainly be reaching for any stone to hand, but I doubt it had much to do with the origins of the hatred. 

 

The Faith doesn't allow homosexual partnerships: Joffrey was no doubt taught this, and Robert and Cersei likely made comments about it when he was younger when referencing Renly. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:03 AM, James Steller said:

When Renly is first introduced, he makes a jape about Ser Ilyn and Joffrey gives him a look of pure loathing. And that was before the Micah incident and before Renly laughed at Joffrey’s humiliation. What could possibly have happened between them that made Joffrey hate him so much? And why would Joffrey be so disgusted with a joke about Ilyn?

Renly doesn't cower before Joffrey.  Renly is beyond Joffrey's power to torment. 

[Castellan]

Poor Joffrey. These scenes with Sansa are the only ones where I feel any sympathy for him. I can't remember how old he is but Sansa is only 12 and he does not seem much mentally older than 14 at the most. He is genuinely taken with her and they are strolling around with him trotting out all the high faluting courtesies he's learned and her thinking he's so handsome and repying in kind. He is trying to act princely in a sauve way that would make listening adults laugh. It all breaks down when there is a larger audience with the dratted Renly in it. But Joffrey doesn't really show his true colours till he encounters Arya and Micah. All a bit sad really.

[csuszka1948]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:03 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Ha! Bold assumption that I even needed that much. I just liked him because he was hot and had cool armour. Laughing at Joffrey was the cherry on top.

 

 

 

I mean, it sounds funny, but at the same time he is laughing at his nephew who has just got bitten by a direwolf, at the middle of a serious discussion.

It's pretty similar to Tyrion slapping Joffrey to the face - we all feel that Joffrey 'deserved' it, but it's also a bit of an assholery from their part.   

 

On the other hand, his lack of hypocrisy is refreshing. He openly admits that he wants Cersei&Lannisters out of power, replace them with the Tyrells and elevate himself higher, that he doesn't care about rules and precedents but about having the largest army and making people love him.

[Alester Florent]

37 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

I mean, it sounds funny, but at the same time he is laughing at his nephew who has just got bitten by a direwolf, at the middle of a serious discussion.

One could argue that Renly was the only person in the room treating the matter with the seriousness it deserved and had Cersei not been there Robert would have done much the same.

Apart from the fact that he probably knows Joff quite well and is delighted that someone finally had the nerve to stand up to the little shit, this is a society which prizes a certain type of masculinity and men are expected to be able to take a few hard knocks. The three Baratheon brothers would have chalked an incident like that up to experience and if they got a scar, would show it off as a memento of being bitten by a direwolf (well, Robert and Renly would, anyway; Stannis would probably complain how unfair it was that he got bitten by the direwolf and not Renly); if they sought revenge on the direwolf they'd do it personally. Robert doesn't even bear a grudge against the boar that kills him: he recognises it's his own fault and a fair cop.

The idea that Robert's son of all people then would go crying to his mother because he got overpowered by an eight-year-old girl and her pet must seem especially pathetic (particularly since Renly and Robert both know Joff well enough to suspect he got what was coming to him under the circumstances). It's not really in the Baratheon idiom.

The obvious parallel here in other Westerosi media is Aerion Brightflame, who took a well-deserved punch to the jaw and went crying to daddy and it all got blown out of all proportion. That he was in the wrong was widely recognised (though not as widely as it should have been) with Aerion's uncle (and indeed Renly's great-(great-?)grandfather) signing up to help the perpetrator defend himself on the field of combat (not to mention the less direct support of two of Aerion's brothers).

On both occasions, people died needlessly just because a spoiled young prince wanted to dish out cruelty but couldn't take the consequences.

[Craving Peaches]

59 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

but at the same time he is laughing at his nephew who has just got bitten by a direwolf

I mean I could understand that if Joffrey got bitten randomly, but Joffrey was only bitten because of his own stupidity and bad character, he brought it on himself and deserves nothing but scorn. Trying to pretend otherwise is actually harmful to Joffrey's development as it shifts away any responsibility he would have to accept.

[csuszka1948]

4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I mean I could understand that if Joffrey got bitten randomly, but Joffrey was only bitten because of his own stupidity and bad character, he brought it on himself and deserves nothing but scorn. Trying to pretend otherwise is actually harmful to Joffrey's development as it shifts away any responsibility he would have to accept.

 

But is the right reaction to laugh him out or explain to him why his behaviour is wrong, or appeal to why this behaviour is 'not befitting of a Baratheon' (like AlesterFlorent does)? 

Renly (and Tyrion) never seem to try the second.

(In their defense, it is possible that they previously saw Jon Arryn (or Stannis) try to explain Joffrey why one of his actions was wrong and it had no effect or he got offended)

[James Arryn]

26 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

But is the right reaction to laugh him out or explain to him why his behaviour is wrong, or appeal to why this behaviour is 'not befitting of a Baratheon' (like AlesterFlorent does)? 

Renly (and Tyrion) never seem to try the second.

(In their defense, it is possible that they previously saw Jon Arryn (or Stannis) try to explain Joffrey why one of his actions was wrong and it had no effect or he got offended)

By the time they get to the confrontation in Darry, Joff has already paid an assassin to kill a crippled boy on a whim, tortured another innocent boy and is at present lying to frame said innocent boy for attacking a prince, which can lead nowhere but to his death. He had also already been caught torturing animals. I think maybe he’s beyond gaining an understanding of the value of taking responsibility with a few words of wisdom.