Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 @Secretary of Eumenes Quote Stick around! I am an enemy of China but a great admirer also. Don't let these imperialist simps chase you away! We have much we can discuss! They're COMMUNISTS psst! psst! They're COMMUNISTS Hey! HEy! HEY! They're COMMUNISTS!!! I don't think you're brainwashed! You can talk to me. I adore communists Seriously! Wanna PM? Yo, you wanna know a secret? They're COMMUNISTS!!!!!!! I know I'm probably the last person you'd defer to in this but please allow Lily to stay if it's at all possible. Great opportunity to learn! Meanwhile, I've said before that Xi played Putin like a doll. I'll say it again. Y'all read about that meeting? Silly silly westerners. Always thinking with your GDPs and wisheries. They're COMMUNISTS!!! They don't care about GDP. They don't care about 'relations' with the west. As long as they can feed their people and murder them if necessary they're achieving their goals. Says a fella from an American protectorate. Sorry man, but China has every reason in the world to be an enemy of the west. They're COMMUNISTS!!! For a “Communist” country there’s an awful lot of private ownership of property and free market capitalism going on: [I figured I’d pull this out of the current Ukraine thread] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: @Secretary of Eumenes For a “Communist” country there’s an awful lot of private ownership of property and free market capitalism going on: [I figured I’d pull this out of the current Ukraine thread] Oh, how did I know you were gonna say that? Scotty, scotty, scotty. My dear sweet scotty. Communism isn't some sterile university checklist. It's not even an economic system or values vehicle. It's a power structure. An ideological excuse to gain and retain authority. The fact that is pretends to promote socialism is just a black hole of superficiality that -not to be mean- procedurally minded folks just can't quite seem to wrap their minds around when they're looking from outside the system... Which I find ironic, because if you were born in the system I think you'd do quite well! China is what communism looks like. So is North Korea. The fact that China allowed ALLOWED for limited private ownership of property and supposedly free markets (when they couldn't afford to keep them out) isn't the great evidence against the efficacy of their communist system that you think it is- It's proof that their version of communism is better than any version we've seen before. I mean goddamn, look what they've accomplished in the last seventy years! It's amazing! They beat us at war in Korea before even catching their breath from the civil war. They beat us. US! U.S.A.! And that's after a hundred years of rape and poisoning -literal poisoning for profit- by the West. To say nothing of Japan. They turned that corner and are now 1 of 2. I know you can't be sexually attracted to a state (unless you're Josephine Boneparte, I suppose ) but goddamn if I don't think of China any time I'm feeling flaccid. Perks me right up in no time. Hey, when was China's last war? Y'know, that they actually did stuff in? What does their military look like? What is its capacities? What do you really know about the way their system works, besides the fact that it's remarkably stable? Especially compared to ours? How many school shooters has U.S.A. had this year? How many has China had? We'll never know the latter, but I'd still bet that it's probably fucking none The party has one objective: maintain power in order to project strength. It's really, really, fun to watch: in a fuck-you-robber-barons-maybe-I'll-see-you-burn-after-all: kinda way. 'Murica is all puffed up with pride at stopping a third-rate despotate from blitzkrieging their former province. It's fucking adorable, the military hards on (syntax). Meanwhile, our economy is a shambles. Our reputation in tatters, and diplomacy a forgotten word in the American language. MOAR SANCTIONS!!! MOAR MOAR, FOR IRAN AND RUSSIA BOTH! Because -clearly- the American hegemony is just too valuable a system for anyone to oppose eh? Yeah, that's what happened for sure. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, right? The end of history? We won! Behold all your victory, my fellow Americans. Edited March 28, 2023 by Secretary of Eumenes Spockydog, Crixus and Zorral 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 47 minutes ago, Secretary of Eumenes said: Oh, how did I know you were gonna say that? Scotty, scotty, scotty. My dear sweet scotty. Communism isn't some sterile university checklist. It's not even an economic system or values vehicle. It's a power structure. An ideological excuse to gain and retain authority. The fact that is pretends to promote socialism is just a black hole of superficiality that -not to be mean- procedurally minded folks just can't quite seem to wrap their minds around when they're looking from outside the system... Which I find ironic, because if you were born in the system I think you'd do quite well! China is what communism looks like. So is North Korea. The fact that China allowed ALLOWED for limited private ownership of property and supposedly free markets (when they couldn't afford to keep them out) isn't the great evidence against the efficacy of their communist system that you think it is- It's proof that their version of communism is better than any version we've seen before. I mean goddamn, look what they've accomplished in the last seventy years! It's amazing! They beat us at war in Korea before even catching their breath from the civil war. They beat us. US! U.S.A.! And that's after a hundred years of rape and poisoning -literal poisoning for profit- by the West. To say nothing of Japan. They turned that corner and are now 1 of 2. I know you can't be sexually attracted to a state (unless you're Josephine Boneparte, I suppose ) but goddamn if I don't think of China any time I'm feeling flaccid. Perks me right up in no time. Hey, when was China's last war? Y'know, that they actually did stuff in? What does their military look like? What is its capacities? What do you really know about the way their system works, besides the fact that it's remarkably stable? Especially compared to ours? How many school shooters has U.S.A. had this year? How many has China had? We'll never know the latter, but I'd still bet that it's probably fucking none The party has one objective: maintain power in order to project strength. It's really, really, fun to watch: in a fuck-you-robber-barons-maybe-I'll-see-you-burn-after-all: kinda way. 'Murica is all puffed up with pride at stopping a third-rate despotate from blitzkrieging their former province. It's fucking adorable, the military hards on (syntax). Meanwhile, our economy is a shambles. Our reputation in tatters, and diplomacy a forgotten word in the American language. MOAR SANCTIONS!!! MOAR MOAR, FOR IRAN AND RUSSIA BOTH! Because -clearly- the American hegemony is just too valuable a system for anyone to oppose eh? Yeah, that's what happened for sure. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, right? The end of history? We won! Behold all your victory, my fellow Americans. Aren’t you describing Fascism and calling it communism? ants 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Aren’t you describing Fascism and calling it communism? And? What would you call our system, if you wanna get right down to it? My Y'alls tax dollars pay for the security and solvency of your business elites. The only relevant difference is that China's state controls its corporations - effective fascism America's corporations control its state - larceners fascism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Vader Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 16 hours ago, Secretary of Eumenes said: Oh, how did I know you were gonna say that? Scotty, scotty, scotty. My dear sweet scotty. Communism isn't some sterile university checklist. It's not even an economic system or values vehicle. It's a power structure. An ideological excuse to gain and retain authority. The fact that is pretends to promote socialism is just a black hole of superficiality that -not to be mean- procedurally minded folks just can't quite seem to wrap their minds around when they're looking from outside the system... Which I find ironic, because if you were born in the system I think you'd do quite well! China is what communism looks like. So is North Korea. The fact that China allowed ALLOWED for limited private ownership of property and supposedly free markets (when they couldn't afford to keep them out) isn't the great evidence against the efficacy of their communist system that you think it is- It's proof that their version of communism is better than any version we've seen before. I mean goddamn, look what they've accomplished in the last seventy years! It's amazing! They beat us at war in Korea before even catching their breath from the civil war. They beat us. US! U.S.A.! And that's after a hundred years of rape and poisoning -literal poisoning for profit- by the West. To say nothing of Japan. They turned that corner and are now 1 of 2. I know you can't be sexually attracted to a state (unless you're Josephine Boneparte, I suppose ) but goddamn if I don't think of China any time I'm feeling flaccid. Perks me right up in no time. Hey, when was China's last war? Y'know, that they actually did stuff in? What does their military look like? What is its capacities? What do you really know about the way their system works, besides the fact that it's remarkably stable? Especially compared to ours? How many school shooters has U.S.A. had this year? How many has China had? We'll never know the latter, but I'd still bet that it's probably fucking none The party has one objective: maintain power in order to project strength. It's really, really, fun to watch: in a fuck-you-robber-barons-maybe-I'll-see-you-burn-after-all: kinda way. 'Murica is all puffed up with pride at stopping a third-rate despotate from blitzkrieging their former province. It's fucking adorable, the military hards on (syntax). Meanwhile, our economy is a shambles. Our reputation in tatters, and diplomacy a forgotten word in the American language. MOAR SANCTIONS!!! MOAR MOAR, FOR IRAN AND RUSSIA BOTH! Because -clearly- the American hegemony is just too valuable a system for anyone to oppose eh? Yeah, that's what happened for sure. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, right? The end of history? We won! Behold all your victory, my fellow Americans. China is in big trouble within the next 15-20 years. There is a huge gap between people about to retire and younger people to take their spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 16 minutes ago, Chad Vader said: China is in big trouble within the next 15-20 years. There is a huge gap between people about to retire and younger people to take their spot. China's future is Japan's present. Ser Scot A Ellison, Winterfell is Burning and Larry of the Lawn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Vader Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 14 minutes ago, maarsen said: China's future is Japan's present. Well if that's the case that sucks for them. China has a bigger impact on the world unfortunately and their downfall will affect us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 31 minutes ago, Chad Vader said: Well if that's the case that sucks for them. China has a bigger impact on the world unfortunately and their downfall will affect us all. Quite the melodrama! An aging population isn't a "downfall". A true case of "economic growth" brain. Jace, Extat, Kalbear and Durckad 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Larry of the Lake said: Quite the melodrama! An aging population isn't a "downfall". A true case of "economic growth" brain. Just to follow up on this real quick (before I go get kite-wise for the first time in almost a month): I'd point out that it's very very fortunate for the Communist part(y) of the People's Republic of China equation that employment of advanced automation and "AI" systems means that they'll have no trouble transmuting themselves from a labor market to a welfare state. If that's what they want to do. Y'know, to maintain power. And keep the people content? What's the Chinese version of Disney+ ??? I don't know, but I'll bet it's in the works if not in use already. All that sweet sweet western debt should help cushion the landing too. Especially when a cool-T of it is owed by a war weary, government insecure, and politically shattered country that is 15-20 months away from just letting Hitler's aborted clone take power. Again! Edited March 30, 2023 by Secretary of Eumenes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Sorry, but Hitler's Aborted Clone is not conservative enough for today's Republican Party. LongRider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 That's a step too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 12:05 AM, Secretary of Eumenes said: How many school shooters has U.S.A. had this year? How many has China had? We'll never know the latter, but I'd still bet that it's probably fucking none Chinese traditionally use knifes in kindergartens. And yes that happens. Probably not as often as in USA but who can tell? Jace, Extat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 @Darzin Quote Except people have been saying China will start arming Russia since the very start of the conflict, it hasn't happened yet and I don't think it will. While China and Russia are friendly I'm fairly sure they view this invasion as a boondoggle and Russia's boondoggle to deal with. Fairly early in the conflict state media switched from being implicitly pro-Russia to both sides bad war bad, peace good. Xi just proposed a peace plan. China is certainly not going to become hostile to Russia but they are not going to directly support the war either. People have been predicting it from the start it hasn't happened and I don't think it will. China is not going to invade the Russian far east. This comes up again and again because people see a heavily populated area of China next to a sparsely populated area of Russia but it's just not going to happen anymore than the US is going to invade Canada for the same reasons. Chinese diplomats have been working for decades to repair Russo-Chinese relations since the Sino-Soviet split that conflict is regarded as a major mistake and blunder. The border disputes along the Amur river have been settled through negotiations. Russia which was once an enemy is now a friend and what's more a powerful and influential friend that is dependent on Chinese largess which is the best kind of powerful friend. Destroying all that in an Eastern Barbarossa would get them what? The resources of Siberia? This 19th century slicing and dicing of territory is not going to happen there is no benefit, it would be like the US invading Saudi Arabia for the oil. Why would China invade a friendly country that is already trading with them on very good terms? Siberia is already filled with Chinese companies and customers and the recent sanctions have made the Chinese more competitive as it's reduced the number of buyers. Also there is the moral factor China wants to take Taiwan and the South China sea because they are considered to be part of China the Qing considered them China, the Kuomintang considered them China and the PRC does as well. China's claimed borders maybe maximalist but they are not arbitrary or ever changing. The man on the street would see a war to take Taiwan as the glorious unification of China against hostile foreigners who want China divided and weak, whereas the taking of Siberia would be seen as random aggression. Plus the fact Russia has a huge nuclear arsenal prevents any of this from happening but even if they didn't it's not something China would want to do anyway. You make a good point here. However, a Chinese invasion of the Russain Far East would put the West in an interesting geopolitical pickle. We’ve strongly supported Ukraine for the stated principle that sovereign territory is inviable and wars of conquest are “wrong” and a betrayal of the modern international world order (Former Yugoslavia and Kosovo being the exception to the rule of inviability). The real politick reason is that Russia wants its own sphere of influence that doesn’t play nicely with the West. Ukraine is a stick in Russia’s eye and a way to deplete Russia’s conventional military strength without directly risking people from western nations in direct combat. Additionally, the expense to Western nations is relatively small as we can send Ukraine our stockpiled reserves (so far). If China invades the Amur region… the calculus shifts. Russia is having its long held territory snactched by another major power and we have an opportunity, similar to the existing situation in Ukraine to have the Russians deplete the reserves and conventional military power of an existing rival. I suspect if it happened you’d see the west making “strong statements” opposing “Chinese Expansionism” and “warmongering” but little support from the West directly for Russia. These two powers fighting against one another directly would be a very good thing for the West militarily. Honestly… we need to tighten relations with Vietnam. The Vietnamese have successfully resisted Chinese incursions on their territory in the near past and there is little love lost between the PRC and Vietnam. Aren’t there talks between the US and Vietnam to allow US Navy Ships to start making port in Cam Ranh Bay again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzin Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 (edited) I think your analysis here is right but I just don't think it would happen, and if it did Russia would use tactical nukes on the Chinese armies advancing through the tundra and forests which would be a whole new pickle for western countries. On 4/1/2023 at 9:49 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Honestly… we need to tighten relations with Vietnam. The Vietnamese have successfully resisted Chinese incursions on their territory in the near past and there is little love lost between the PRC and Vietnam. Aren’t there talks between the US and Vietnam to allow US Navy Ships to start making port in Cam Ranh Bay again? Yes but in my mind the US should be cautious about getting too involved in the South China sea issue. Issue no country there has reasonable claims, except Malaysia, which is probably why they are not involved in the bickering over it. Vietnam is also building artificial islands to prop up and support their claims and have ridiculous propaganda about it . The Philippines would be too if they had the money instead they've sank a derelict ship and stationed some hapless soldiers there. The disputes go back to the KMT and the French colonial government of Indochina and one thing Taiwan does agree with the PRC on is that the nine dash line is great. Taiwan has soldiers stationed in the South China sea on the islands they control to enforce it, as do Vietnam and the Philippines. It seems to me that the truth is there is no objective owner of the islands and no one is being reasonable in their clamed borders, though China is the most unreasonable, but I don't think the US should get in the business of being put in a position to defend any of these claims. Edited April 13, 2023 by Darzin Crixus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Can someone just please give Macron a good whack at the back of his head? He seems to need it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 We (the French) are doing our best, believe me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I've seen posts (on other sites) and memes about how tough the Chinese military is compared to the US military, where the US Military is mocked for being "woke" - but if it came to war the US Military would utterly annihilate the Chinese military Jace, Extat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Uhm, yeah. A community that calls a military "woke" sounds truly like one with common sense... It would definitely be the wrong lesson learned from Ukraine to start underestimating hostile countries. Personally, I doubt that China's military would be as much of a shit show as Russia's, given it's budget and that society doesn't seem quite as notoriously corrupt, at least when observed from the outside. There are of course a lot of question marks, given China's usual propaganda bluster, but I'd put my effort into signalling Xi that any wars of conquest on their end, no matter how much they want to pretend it's an "internal" affair, will bring on all the economic hurt and that the status quo would be much, much, much preferable to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 (edited) I'll tell you what, amigos, the US is done for if it doesn't get rid of its woke prisons and its liberal drone strikes. Edited April 13, 2023 by Larry of the Lake It's ants, Crixus and Jace, Extat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 6 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: I've seen posts (on other sites) and memes about how tough the Chinese military is compared to the US military, where the US Military is mocked for being "woke" - but if it came to war the US Military would utterly annihilate the Chinese military On the internet, as in real life, bragging about how tough and strong one is usually means one is overcompensating for feelings or knowledge of inferiority. Zorral, Prince of the North and Jace, Extat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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