Fandom Phases

[Crona]

I just remember before the show ended, a lot of posters believed the ENTIRE story was about either Jon or Dany and suggesting different was heavily criticized. Dorne, Aegon, Bran, and Ironborn being downplayed. When the finale came out, (and it was George's idea), a lot of this died down lol. 

[SeanF]

One thing you see in parts of the fandom, is the madonna, Sansa, being contrasted with the whore, Daenerys.

Sansa remains “pure”, as a maid, chastely in love with Jon, whereas Daenerys is “fallen”, a young woman who enjoys sex with people she is not married to, who tries to corrupt Jon.

[kissdbyfire]

20 minutes ago, SeanF said:

One thing you see in parts of the fandom, is the madonna, Sansa, being contrasted with the whore, Daenerys.

Sansa remains “pure”, as a maid, chastely in love with Jon, whereas Daenerys is “fallen”, a young woman who enjoys sex with people she is not married to, who tries to corrupt Jon.

   

[SeanF]

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

   

By contrast, the anti-Sansa fandom see her as a Lady Macbeth/ Livia Augusta figure, grimly plotting the destruction of anyone who stands between her and Winterfell.  But, she’s rarely seen as a seductress.

[kissdbyfire]

13 minutes ago, SeanF said:

By contrast, the anti-Sansa fandom see her as a Lady Macbeth/ Livia Augusta figure, grimly plotting the destruction of anyone who stands between her and Winterfell.  But, she’s rarely seen as a seductress.

So many great fans, but for each there are dozens that… aren’t so great. Some of the stuff people come up with is truly mind-boggling. 

[SeanF]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:23 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think the fandom’s relationship with Daenerys is similar to my relationship with HOTD lol. I like the show, but all the praise I see from people online saying how flawless and perfect it is (both among the YouTube bros and feminists who hate other shows for the same things they love HOTD for) kind of grinds my gears and makes me like the show less as a result. With Dany (more so the show than the books) we spent seven seasons being told that everything she did—burning people alive, dishing out cringe platitudes, essentially getting everything she wanted from S3-onward—was a sign of how she was the greatest person who ever walked the planet, and it was jarring.   Nobody likes being told that their eyes are lying to them. So when Dany went bananas in S8, it felt like she was finally a real person and not some wish fulfillment character that we were all compelled to like. Once the show stopped trying to convince us that Dany was perfect, it was easier just to see her as a person.

(And this is why I expect I’ll start defending HOTD if/when people turn  on it lol).

Really, things would have turned out much better if Cersei, Dany, and Sansa had just enjoyed a ménage a trois, in Season 8.

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Really, things would have turned out much better if Cersei, Dany, and Sansa had just enjoyed a ménage a trois, in Season 8.

That would have been an improvement. Well, anything would have been an improvement, really… But at least it would have given Cersei something to do, even if all she did was just Dany and Sansa.

[SeanF]

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

   

Actually, that is a change.  Ten years ago, I can remember quite a few comments here, about Daenerys being “whore”, “slut”, “skank”, as well as a real fixation with her alleged preference for anal sex.  I expect the Moderators now simply delete such stuff, but it’s common enough on Reddit.

[Curled Finger]

I don't remember any of that.  Rhaego.  I remember lots of Rhaegar was the devil and Rhaego was...I'm not sure what he was supposed to be, but he was alive and...again, not sure.  Oh gads!  How could I forget!  Asteroids and meteors.  There was that.  

Edited April 1 by Curled Finger
found my lighter

[LongRider]

I'm glad I didn't read Dany threads; they sound like they could be awful.  Plenty of trolls in the Sansa threads for anybody.

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't remember any of that.  Rhaego.  I remember lots of Rhaegar was the devil and Rhaego was...I'm not sure what he was supposed to be, but he was alive and...again, not sure.  Oh gads!  How could I forget!  Asteroids and meteors.  There was that.  

Funnily enough, I just found a really old thread from 2012, entitled “Daenerys is a Whore”, which @kissdbyfireasked the moderators to shut down.

Edited April 2 by SeanF

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Funnily enough, I just found a really old thread from 2012, entitled “Daenerys is a Whore”, which @kissdbyfireasked the moderators to shut down.

That's bad...and before my time.  There is a lot I just didn't read because of titles.  I wouldn't have gone into something like that.  Waste of brain matter.  There is one going now about Dany I haven't bothered with.  I'm catching on to what's out there simply to agitate.  

[SeanF]

24 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

That's bad...and before my time.  There is a lot I just didn't read because of titles.  I wouldn't have gone into something like that.  Waste of brain matter.  There is one going now about Dany I haven't bothered with.  I'm catching on to what's out there simply to agitate.  

I do find it quite blackly funny, how some fans (consciously or not) adopt not so much medieval attitudes towards sex (which were in some ways, fairly open-minded) as late Victorian/Edwardian attitudes towards sex, when discussing the characters.

So, a woman who actually enjoys sex, with .... a man she is not married to ... is treated as "fallen", "a temptress", "a corrupter", along with more coarse terms.  Added to that, is the fact Dany is at least slightly bisexual.  It's also claimed that she enjoyed anal sex with Daario, at which point, the outrage goes off the scale.

As against that, Sansa is pure, as a maid.  Although, there's also a fairly widespread view that she needs to apologise to Tyrion, for refusing to consummate her marriage to him (as a twelve year old captive ought to have done).

In fanfic, the rape of Sansa is quite a common plot element, because it's both shocking, and it enables Sansa to escape guilt, at having had sex.  The rape of Daenerys is rare, on the other hand, because how could a whore be a victim of rape?

And yet, I can sort of understand it.  It was only in the early nineties, that it became accepted, in fantasy writing, for a woman to have sex with anybody other than her husband.  And romantic fiction was using the rape of the heroine, as a plot device, well before that, and it's still a fairly popular trope to this day.

Edited April 2 by SeanF

[kissdbyfire]

11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I do find it quite blackly funny, how some fans (consciously or not) adopt not so much medieval attitudes towards sex (which were in some ways, fairly open-minded) as late Victorian/Edwardian attitudes towards sex, when discussing the characters.

So, a woman who actually enjoys sex, with .... a man she is not married to ... is treated as "fallen", "a temptress", "a corrupter", along with more coarse terms.  Added to that, is the fact Dany is at least slightly bisexual.  It's also claimed that she enjoyed anal sex with Daario, at which point, the outrage goes off the scale.

As against that, Sansa is pure, as a maid.  Although, there's also a fairly widespread view that she needs to apologise to Tyrion, for refusing to consummate her marriage to him (as a twelve year old captive ought to have done).

In fanfic, the rape of Sansa is quite a common plot element, because it's both shocking, and it enables Sansa to escape guilt, at having had sex.  The rape of Daenerys is rare, on the other hand, because how could a whore be a victim of rape?

And yet, I can sort of understand it.  It was only in the early nineties, that it became accepted, in fantasy writing, for a woman to have sex with anybody other than her husband.  And romantic fiction was using the rape of the heroine, as a plot device, well before that, and it's still a fairly popular trope to this day.

Ugh. I find all of this appalling, even in the 90s. But I suppose what really baffles me is how conservative about sex some people are, even very young people. Though I think that’s finally changing as Gen Zers seem to be far less prejudiced than even Millennials. 
And it’s not that people are ridiculously uptight about sex, it’s much worse: they’re incredibly uptight and judgmental about other people’s sex lives. WTAF. What consenting adults do in private is no one’s business. To want to have a say in what people do in the bedroom is ridiculous, but to project all of their silly  repression onto fictional characters is sad and pathetic. 

[SeanF]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ugh. I find all of this appalling, even in the 90s. But I suppose what really baffles me is how conservative about sex some people are, even very young people. Though I think that’s finally changing as Gen Zers seem to be far less prejudiced than even Millennials. 
And it’s not that people are ridiculously uptight about sex, it’s much worse: they’re incredibly uptight and judgmental about other people’s sex lives. WTAF. What consenting adults do in private is no one’s business. To want to have a say in what people do in the bedroom is ridiculous, but to project all of their silly  repression onto fictional characters is sad and pathetic. 

That's the point, it's other peoples'  sex lives.

As to messed up attitudes, I'm not sure it's that much of a generational thing.  I was surprised to read one survey that suggested that 45% of UK males, aged 15-24, approved of Andrew Tate.

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, SeanF said:

I was surprised to read one survey that suggested that 45% of UK males, aged 15-24, approved of Andrew Tate.

I do hope those surveyed were just giving joking responses and don't genuinely support a suspected human trafficker?

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

That's the point, it's other peoples'  sex lives.

As to messed up attitudes, I'm not sure it's that much of a generational thing.  I was surprised to read one survey that suggested that 45% of UK males, aged 15-24, approved of Andrew Tate.

Bloody hell. Then again it’s sort of aligned w/ this global divisiveness that seems to split humanity in general in half. For the record, these guys are not on the same half I’m on! Go Greta, whose trolling of Tate on Twitter was epic. 

[Craving Peaches]

I'm no psychoanalyst, but I think Tate might be compensating for something...

[LongRider]

8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I was surprised to read one survey that suggested that 45% of UK males, aged 15-24, approved of Andrew Tate.

This doesn't surprise me sadly. 

[SeanF]

4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I do hope those surveyed were just giving joking responses and don't genuinely support a suspected human trafficker?

I had only heard of Andrew Tate in passing, up till a few weeks ago, yet apparently, his videos are huge, among schoolboys.

I think a lot of very young people have not truly formed well thought-out opinions, and are very prone to peer pressure.