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MCU - Hawkeye v Snowcat


BigFatCoward
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29 minutes ago, karaddin said:

But I'm not a white dude and I'm quite happy to have Brie Larson making movies for me.

And I'll be right there in line behind you, buying tickets to her movies, because artists make art because they have something to say. And I am a hella pasty slavic white dude who is so tired and bored with these angry white dudes and edgelords going on about Brie. Move the fuck on and grow up already. 

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Id probably respect Brie Larson more if she could say what she says in a less condescending,snarky,hateful,passive aggressive and decidedly un-inclusive way. Ironically beating her own ‘good intentions’ It comes across in her performance as Captain Marvel too…like someone said earlier- a charisma black hole. And she can be a good actress as evidenced by Room and The Spectacular Now. 

Other actresses like Priyanka Chopra and Jennifer Aniston have spoken about the same message without coming across like a dingbat. 

Edited by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II
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Yepp, cause winning an Oscar makes you immune to criticism… Cats is a great movie cause Oscar Winner Tom Hooper directed it dammit and us common people’s opinions are worth shit ! 

Btw I did say she was good in Room…that doesn't automatically make her unaccountable for all future performances, both on screen and off screen. 

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3 hours ago, karaddin said:

But I'm not a white dude and I'm quite happy to have Brie Larson making movies for me. You can have Chris Pratt movies.

 

But why does it have to be one or the other ? Brie is the one who said certain films are only made for certain people, not me. 

The central fallacy in Brie Larson’s rants is her absolute belief that a movie is made ‘only for that audience’ Films are made for everyone, it can be aimed at a particular demographic but that doesn’t mean others can’t or shouldn’t watch it and derive their own likes or dislikes on it and be affected in their own way. 

Infact you’d ideally want your movie focused on a certain minority, to be watched by as many different ethnic groups as possible so you’d be spreading awareness on their issues with people outside of that specific clique, which would help dispel stereotypes and help them learn about how it really is. If anything, her argument comes across as racist and overly defensive to women of colour because she thinks like attracts like rather than then primarily appreciating it if it’s a good movie or not, and ‘white dudes’ inherently being unable to ever understand an ‘alien’ culture and appreciate and learn from it.

All she had to say in that speech was that she hopes that PoC watch this film and  derive inspiration from it, and that more representation in film criticism should be encouraged as it allows for more diverse opinions, formed from different life experiences/backgrounds. 
 

But instead she turned it into a zero sum and excluded one entire ethnic group at the expense of another, cause everything has to be polarised now, there’s no middle ground anymore.She could’ve framed it so much better instead of just berating white dudes cause she wants to appear as overly progressive.Also,saying you don’t hate white dudes before every sentence in which err.. you hate on them doesn't negate what you said. 

Isnt it a bit telling that as a person of color I find her remakes pretty racist and un-inclusive? For example, I’d want Bollywood movies to be seen by as many different races as possible, not just Indians cause ‘they’re made for us’ and white dudes can go watch Chris Pratt instead. 
 

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You're doing a hell of a lot of projecting what you think she meant onto what she actually meant in those comments, while taking them in a completely different context to which they are being said. And instead of just accepting that as a thing which happened you're still angry at her about it several years later. There is an entire ecosystem on social media built around hating specifically her and its just weird. 

I didn't pick Chris Pratt at random, I picked him because he's a guy that I dislike at least in part based on my own projecting shit onto him based on his religion and assumed (by me) bigoted views so I thought he's a pretty good equivalent to Brie in that fashion. The difference is that this is (I think) the first time I've ever mentioned my dislike of him because I just move on and either don't watch his movies, or deal with the dislike and get over it if I do.

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1 minute ago, karaddin said:

You're doing a hell of a lot of projecting what you think she meant onto what she actually meant in those comments, while taking them in a completely different context to which they are being said. And instead of just accepting that as a thing which happened you're still angry at her about it several years later. There is an entire ecosystem on social media built around hating specifically her and its just weird. 

It's all right here, and absolutely none of it fits the narrative Private Rodrigo von Numbskull has spun.

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Brie does appear to be quite unlikable in real life, but that’s not really infuencimg my opinion of her Captain Marvel. 
 

The issue with Brie is I’m not sure she has ever been good in anything outside of Room. Her Carol Danvers, and it might not be entirely her fault, is cold and awkward but written as if she’s a Tony Stark knock off. To be fair all MCU characters are written that way but she is particularly poor at pulling off the smirk without coming across as condescending. She just can’t do humour or be likeable, and brings zero charisma to the screen.

Which is why I worry for that Marvels movie, because the same could be said of Monica Rambeau. It looks like it’s only Ms Marvel who has any screen presence at all and she’s a child.

The difference with Chris Pratt is he’s generally pretty watchable and is able to do humour very well. He has that talent.

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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Brie does appear to be quite unlikable in real life, but that’s not really infuencimg my opinion of her Captain Marvel. 

She has openly admitted that she's not the best with interviewing. Like, shit dude, I'm *wildly* extroverted, but you put a camera on me and I lock up something hard and my inner introvert comes out yelling and screaming like he's Captain Sparrow running away from an angry horde. Watching her as someone who's worked in TV and theatre for many years, I suspect Marvel/Disney gave her poor media training - which one REALLY does need when dealing with large crowds, hours upon hours of interviews, etc. If you're not ready for it and given proper mentorship and guidance on how to deal with it, you're going to inevitably do or say something regretable. I cannot stress how important media training is when dealing with live feeds, audiences, interviews, etc. (I've been running live shows every week in Sydney to large audiences for over seven years now, so I can speak to this with some authority.)

She has gotten better, and there are plenty of instances, like when she dressed up as Captain Marvel at a cinema, and was out meeting fans, serving popcorn, and generally just nerding out over Marvel stuff, where she was much better. But that weirdly gets forgotten because, as @karaddin pointed out, there's a whole industry built around this, seemingly by raging basement-dwelling nerds in dire need of better hobbies. 

That said, the views expressed by Private Brain Flush look and sound pretty much exactly like whatever the latest rage bait is on Youtube. Nothing that falls out of his mouth is remotely original or surprising. It's like being subjected to paid advertising drawn by children on a diet of chalk and paint thinner.

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Lmao, love to phrase stating my opinion as objective fact like no one could possibly see things differently.

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Brie does appear to be quite unlikable in real life, but that’s not really infuencimg my opinion of her Captain Marvel. 
 

The issue with Brie is I’m not sure she has ever been good in anything outside of Room. Her Carol Danvers, and it might not be entirely her fault, is cold and awkward but written as if she’s a Tony Stark knock off. To be fair all MCU characters are written that way but she is particularly poor at pulling off the smirk without coming across as condescending. She just can’t do humour or be likeable, and brings zero charisma to the screen.

Which is why I worry for that Marvels movie, because the same could be said of Monica Rambeau. It looks like it’s only Ms Marvel who has any screen presence at all and she’s a child.

The difference with Chris Pratt is he’s generally pretty watchable and is able to do humour very well. He has that talent.

Chris does appear to be quite unlikable in real life, but that’s not really infuencimg my opinion of him in Guardians of the Galaxy. 
 

The issue with Chris is I’m not sure she has ever been good in anything outside of Parks and Recreation. His Peter Quill, and it might not be entirely his fault, is an unlikeable asshole but written as though the other Guardians would want to stay around him, let alone Gamora fall in love with him. To be fair all MCU characters are written that way but he is particularly poor at pulling off the smirk without coming across as a prick. He just can’t do this humour or be likeable, and brings zero charisma to the screen.

...

The difference with Brie Larson is she’s generally pretty watchable and is able to do humour very well. She has that talent.

 

This edit of your words is entirely true for my experience watching GotG1&2 and I haven't bothered to watch 3 because at the heart of it is all this unsympathetic asshole that I don't care about. Brie on the other hand has a fantastic dry delivery that absolutely works for me, and I really thought you as a pom would be able to see it but I guess you can't see past the permanent scowl your brain is superimposing on her face.

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2 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Brie on the other hand has a fantastic dry delivery that absolutely works for me

My wife has a very similar kind of delivery sometimes, and every time she does it, I just light up. So naturally, that Brie does something similar is going to appeal to me, as she reminds me of my glorious and amazing wife.

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1 minute ago, karaddin said:

Lmao, love to phrase stating my opinion as objective fact like no one could possibly see things differently.

Chris does appear to be quite unlikable in real life, but that’s not really infuencimg my opinion of him in Guardians of the Galaxy. 
 

The issue with Chris is I’m not sure she has ever been good in anything outside of Parks and Recreation. His Peter Quill, and it might not be entirely his fault, is an unlikeable asshole but written as though the other Guardians would want to stay around him, let alone Gamora fall in love with him. To be fair all MCU characters are written that way but he is particularly poor at pulling off the smirk without coming across as a prick. He just can’t do this humour or be likeable, and brings zero charisma to the screen.

...

The difference with Brie Larson is she’s generally pretty watchable and is able to do humour very well. She has that talent.

 

This edit of your words is entirely true for my experience watching GotG1&2 and I haven't bothered to watch 3 because at the heart of it is all this unsympathetic asshole that I don't care about. Brie on the other hand has a fantastic dry delivery that absolutely works for me, and I really thought you as a pom would be able to see it but I guess you can't see past the permanent scowl your brain is superimposing on her face.

Lol, fair. Having said that Pratt was almost universally recognised as being very good in GotG, his humour suiting the role rather well.. which led to him getting roles in lots of other big action blockbusters. 
 

Brie has so ‘good’ in Captain Marvel that she hasn’t been offered anything major since, her captain marvel going from being the supposed centre of the new avengers to not even being able to lead her own sequel. 
 

So it might seem like it’s ‘just my opinion’ that Pratt was good and Brie was bad, but it seems I’m hardly alone.. whereas you seem to be a total outlier here

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Just now, IlyaP said:

My wife has a very similar kind of delivery sometimes, and every time she does it, I just light up. So naturally, that Brie does something similar is going to appeal to me, as she reminds me of my glorious and amazing wife.

It actually makes sense that people who don't see this aspect to her performance (and lets just leave aside whether I'm inserting something that isn't there or they're missing something which is, it doesn't matter for this point) don't like the movie. She didn't come across as wooden to me in a single scene in the entire movie, I was laughing pretty regularly through its whole run. If you're not seeing that at all, then yeah it probably is quite a dry and boring movie.

I'd like to think that the version I'm seeing is the one that was intended, given it matches the performances given by all the other actors in the movie and the music selection for the scenes, but even it being intended doesn't mean I'm right and its in her performance - I can just be projecting it because I'm responding to all those other cues as well.

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Brie has so ‘good’ in Captain Marvel that she hasn’t been offered anything major since, her captain marvel going from being the supposed centre of the new avengers to not even being able to lead her own sequel. 

Guessing you didn't see Fast X? She was in that alongside Human God Among Men, Alan Ritchson.  

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Lol, fair. Having said that Pratt was almost universally recognised as being very good in GotG, his humour suiting the role rather well.. which led to him getting roles in lots of other big action blockbusters. 
 

Brie has so ‘good’ in Captain Marvel that she hasn’t been offered anything major since, her captain marvel going from being the supposed centre of the new avengers to not even being able to lead her own sequel. 
 

So it might seem like it’s ‘just my opinion’ that Pratt was good and Brie was bad, but it seems I’m hardly alone.. whereas you seem to be a total outlier here

Lets just leave aside the bolded claim which I don't believe is backed by evidence. Brie had an entire social media ecostructure dedicated to hating her before the movie even came out, it hasn't let up in over 4 years - do you think that might have some impact on studios being willing to build their marketing campaign around her? Ignoring the fact that its always been easier to become an action star in Hollywood as a white dude. 

Also can't help but note that most people who feel like I do about Chris just keep that shit to themselves. There was a brief spike in people talking about him a year or two ago, it was based on (what I believe) was incorrect identification of his church AND never got anything like the popularity of the Brie hate train has gotten. 

But despite all that, Captain Marvel still made over $1b and there are plenty of people that share my views on Brie. And its not like her career is over. Not quite the total outlier you seem to think, just an outlier in your bubble.

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2 minutes ago, karaddin said:

It actually makes sense that people who don't see this aspect to her performance (and lets just leave aside whether I'm inserting something that isn't there or they're missing something which is, it doesn't matter for this point) don't like the movie. She didn't come across as wooden to me in a single scene in the entire movie, I was laughing pretty regularly through its whole run. If you're not seeing that at all, then yeah it probably is quite a dry and boring movie.

Interestingly, my barber of all people said he doesn't like that kind of performance because he doesn't like sass in women. It, for whatever reason, bothers him or hits some kind of button in him to which he doesn't respond to very well. He's *very* aware of this and knows it, but despite that self-awareness, he just doesn't enjoy seeing female sass on screen, which, I guess, is maybe what they're responding to? Like, there's a lot of underlying humor in Captain Marvel, and it's all assembled nicely alongside Pinar Toprak's propulsive score, and Samuel L. Jackson channeling a kind of subdued version of Mitch Henessey from Long Kiss Goodnight. 

Yes, the line delivery is not always the most dynamic, but again, it comes across as very intentional to me. And by this stage in the MCU, they don't let anything in that they don't want in there, so what we're seeing is more than likely intended for a reason. 

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2 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Interestingly, my barber of all people said he doesn't like that kind of performance because he doesn't like sass in women. It, for whatever reason, bothers him or hits some kind of button in him to which he doesn't respond to very well. He's *very* aware of this and knows it, but despite that self-awareness, he just doesn't enjoy seeing female sass on screen, which, I guess, is maybe what they're responding to? Like, there's a lot of underlying humor in Captain Marvel, and it's all assembled nicely alongside Pinar Toprak's propulsive score, and Samuel L. Jackson channeling a kind of subdued version of Mitch Henessey from Long Kiss Goodnight. 

Yes, the line delivery is not always the most dynamic, but again, it comes across as very intentional to me. And by this stage in the MCU, they don't let anything in that they don't want in there, so what we're seeing is more than likely intended for a reason. 

And Ben Mendelsohn's Talos, when he walks in with the drink...just fantastic.

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9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Brie has so ‘good’ in Captain Marvel that she hasn’t been offered anything major since, her captain marvel going from being the supposed centre of the new avengers to not even being able to lead her own sequel. 

Uh, *raises finger Captain Mal style*

She's been in more films than Robert Downey Jr. since Endgame, and on par, nearly, with Ruffalo, who's only done a few things post that.  Why aren't we judging RDJ for not being in more stuff post-Endgame?

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