Craving Peaches Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Melisandre believes the Wildings are doomed. This is what she thinks: Quote None of his free folk mattered. They were a lost people, a doomed people, destined to vanish from the earth, as the children of the forest had vanished. Now I think she is being a bit dismissive here, but besides that, I wonder what makes her think this. I presume it is a vision, if so I have to question how likely it really is, given Melisandre doesn't have a fool proof track record when it comes to interpretation her visions. There are several ways I can see such a scenario happening: The Others kill all the Wildlings - sad but possible, though I am not sure if it is going to happen The Wildlings loose their unique culture and way of life through being assimilated into kneeler culture - it could happen if they have to settle permanently below the Wall, but assuming the Others are eventually defeated, they can just return North of the Wall... The people of the Seven Kingdoms kill the Wildlings - this fits the most with them vanishing 'as the children of the forest had', again it's possible, but I don't know how likely it is, Jon going to all the trouble just for them all to be killed seems a bit bleak even by the standards of the series... Since all of the above don't seem that probable, I wonder if Melisandre is really right here. I also don't want her to be right as I think it would be a real shame if all the Wildlings just vanished. I know there is a theme with the Giants, the Children etc. fading away, but that is to make way for humans, and the Wildings are humans so...? Am I missing something here? Does anyone else have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 37 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Since all of the above don't seem that probable Why? Sure, Martin may not go that route, but realistically, Wildlings have a choice of either dying north of the Wall or living south of it... and if they live south of the Wall, they will eventually have to accept Westerosi way of life... or else perish. Much like barbarians rather quickly adapted Roman way of life when the Western Empire fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Aldarion said: Martin may not go that route, but realistically, Wildlings have a choice of either dying north of the Wall or living south of it... Because if the Others are defeated they can just go live North of the Wall again so no need to assimilate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 41 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Now I think she is being a bit dismissive here, but besides that, I wonder what makes her think this. Her hubris is what makes her think this imo. But she’s wrong, as is so often the case. Now, I believe she has some true powers; not as many nor as mighty as she’s always trying to sell to other people though. I think she’s in for a few surprises… I’m looking forward to this, it will be wonderful to see her go through a proper reality-check. I also believe the free folk will have a big part to play in a possible BftD 2.0, after all, back when the first BftD happened, the only humans in the fight were First Men and the FF are the less diluted FM blood around currently, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Melisandre is dismissing the Odl Gods, the greenseers and the North in general. For this, like for many things, she is wrong. I believe it will be the contrary. We'll see a return of the Greenseers (humans). We'll see a return of the Old God values or guidance. The Free Folk (with Jon), the Vale Mountain Clans (with Sansa?) will find suitable places in Westeros. Without destroying their culture. With Jon and Bran, the time of kings and kneelers is at an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 The Children of the Forest aren't gone. Mel spouts off whatever she thinks fits and serves her. She doesn't know the COTF have survived these long years, thus baloney on her words. She is an opportunist only interested in having all things her way, which is to serve R'hllor. The Wildlings don't appear to be down with that idea therefore she has no use for them. She can't even figure out her own visions of Snow when she asks to see Azor Ahai. Cute, not that bright. Perhaps she would make better kindling than prognosticator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 36 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: She is an opportunist only interested in having all things her way, which is to serve R'hllor. I think of her a bit differently, she serves R'hollor as "an opportunist only interested in having all things her way." Thanks to Selyse, she's been able to get close to Stannis and go from there. Would love to see Selyse lose her faith tell Mel to take a hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, LongRider said: I think of her a bit differently, she serves R'hollor as "an opportunist only interested in having all things her way." Thanks to Selyse, she's been able to get close to Stannis and go from there. Would love to see Selyse lose her faith tell Mel to take a hike. say what you will about Melisandre, and I’d agree with a lot of it, but she actually recognizes the threat of the Others. Which is more than you can say for 80% of the other POV characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, James Steller said: say what you will about Melisandre, and I’d agree with a lot of it, but she actually recognizes the threat of the Others. Which is more than you can say for 80% of the other POV characters. Does she really? She believes in a threat for sure. But I don’t think she even knows what the real threat is. She thinks she’s right, as usual, but w/ Mel the confirmation bias is off the charts so she believes whatever she *thinks* is the threat. And there’s a difference between what she thinks and what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: The Others kill all the Wildlings - sad but possible, though I am not sure if it is going to happen The Wildlings loose their unique culture and way of life through being assimilated into kneeler culture - it could happen if they have to settle permanently below the Wall, but assuming the Others are eventually defeated, they can just return North of the Wall... The people of the Seven Kingdoms kill the Wildlings - this fits the most with them vanishing 'as the children of the forest had', again it's possible, but I don't know how likely it is, Jon going to all the trouble just for them all to be killed seems a bit bleak even by the standards of the series... It is going to be the second. They will viewed the same way as the other clans of Westeros, in the Vale and in the North. Part of what defined the Wildlings was their isolation: they are no longer isolated. Then again, as others pointed out, the Children of the Forest still live, so who is to say that the Wildlings won't be able to maintain their social structures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 She does not believe in the Others, but in the Great Other, an enemy of R'hllor and a different baddie than the Others. I looked the Great Other up in the wiki and it's pretty interesting: Quote Beliefs Followers of R'hllor believe that there are only two gods, the Lord of Light and the Great Other, who wage an eternal war over the fate of the world.[1] Darkness, cold, and death are believed to be servants to the Great Other,[3] while shadows are considered servants of R'hllor.[5] Red priests believe that they have been given the power to see through falsehoods of the Other's servants.[1] Melisandre believes her enemy has black eyes,[5] and she thinks that no man could survive looking upon the cold, frightening visage of the Great Other.[3] The Free Folk believe in the Others due to their experience with the Others and wights, that's not the Great Other though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I mean she's not entirely wrong. They're entire culture has nearly been destroyed by The Others and truth be told, things aren't looking good for them, when we last left them in ADWD. A few thousand have accepted the truce with the Nights Watch and have made it to the other side of the wall, but the rest are choosing to keep their freedom, which most likely means their doom. Just my 2 cents though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Melisandre is certainly right that the wildlings are done. If the Others win they die, if the Others are defeated the Seven Kingdoms will make all the wildlings kneel and spread their way of life to in the lands beyond the Wall since the Wall will be gone then. As a culture, the wildlings are mostly reminiscent of romanticized nonsense like the Old West - a lawless place where proper civilization has not yet taken root. But it will. And then the wildlings will be gone like the giants and the Children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Buster Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 The Wildlings and the north are in the danger zone. The end of the Wildlings is possible. It looks like they will be the first victims of the White Walkers. A scenario where the Starks become servants of the White Walkers will save the Wildlings. The Starks are bitter in defeat. Jon, Bran, even Arya can let the White Walkers through the wall as their act of revenge. The Wildlings will be spared if they start giving human sacrifices to the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 9 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said: It is going to be the second. They will viewed the same way as the other clans of Westeros, in the Vale and in the North. Part of what defined the Wildlings was their isolation: they are no longer isolated. Then again, as others pointed out, the Children of the Forest still live, so who is to say that the Wildlings won't be able to maintain their social structures. 6 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Melisandre is certainly right that the wildlings are done. If the Others win they die, if the Others are defeated the Seven Kingdoms will make all the wildlings kneel and spread their way of life to in the lands beyond the Wall since the Wall will be gone then. As a culture, the wildlings are mostly reminiscent of romanticized nonsense like the Old West - a lawless place where proper civilization has not yet taken root. But it will. And then the wildlings will be gone like the giants and the Children. While I have said before that wildlings need to assimilate, I will point out here that Mountain Clans in the Vale as well as the clans in the North also appear to maintain their own culture. So not all Wildlings need to assimilate, especially not immediately, so long as they don't cause trouble. Issue of course being that there are likely simply too many wildlings to establish such isolated societies. So majority of them will probably need to assimilate in due time. 5 hours ago, X-Buster said: The Wildlings and the north are in the danger zone. The end of the Wildlings is possible. It looks like they will be the first victims of the White Walkers. A scenario where the Starks become servants of the White Walkers will save the Wildlings. The Starks are bitter in defeat. Jon, Bran, even Arya can let the White Walkers through the wall as their act of revenge. The Wildlings will be spared if they start giving human sacrifices to the Others. What is it with crazy bot-style anti-Stark posts? First it is the Holy Daenerys, now it is the Holy Others...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Aldarion said: What is it with crazy bot-style anti-Stark posts? First it is the Holy Daenerys, now it is the Holy Others...? This place has been plagued with trolls for a while now. Making the main characters seem evil is apparently cool right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, sifth said: This place has been plagued with trolls for a while now. Making the main characters seem evil is apparently cool right now. Yes, and it's been going on for a good long while now, Not all main characters though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 28 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Yes, and it's been going on for a good long while now, Not all main characters though, right? Yea, it sort of reminds me of back in the day when everyone obsessed over Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I think the wall will fall ans theyl be rolled into the new north, free from the threat of others or decades long winters it can thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 6 hours ago, Aldarion said: While I have said before that wildlings need to assimilate, I will point out here that Mountain Clans in the Vale as well as the clans in the North also appear to maintain their own culture. So not all Wildlings need to assimilate, especially not immediately, so long as they don't cause trouble. Issue of course being that there are likely simply too many wildlings to establish such isolated societies. So majority of them will probably need to assimilate in due time. They cause trouble. That's what an anarchists and democratic revolutionaries do. I can't picture any scenario since Jon has opened the gates to allowing the freefolk to remain free and not become kneelers. Also what culture is different from the North? Anarchy sure but that's more of a political question. The clans in the Vale have also fought against conquest and assimilation for thousands of years and while their doom isn't as pronounced as the wildlings they are probably too not long for this world. Hopefully they'll be able to bring some of their democratic principles to whoever they decide to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.