Star Wars: The Wrong Trousers

[hauberk]

1 hour ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Or as part of the rebels in general, or on coruscant. 

It would have been nice.

Have we seen much in the way of aliens on Coruscant during the imperial era?  I’ll confess that much of my Lore is now considered legend but my recollection was that the Empire was particularly species-ist. 
 

Agreed about the rebels as a whole but it didn’t make sense for the heist crew. 

[mormont]

10 hours ago, hauberk said:

It’s not too much to ask, but, in particular for the prison, logistically it makes no sense - not only due to food supply lines but also calibrating the floors to multiple species.

The floor is basically techno-magic and it would have made as much sense for the writers to write it as working for multiple species as it would to write it the way they did. The food issue has never been a problem in any other SW setting. These aren't reasons, they're rationalisations.

[Heartofice]

I’d much rather the worst thing you could say about Andor is ‘ not enough aliens’, rather than ‘was this written by a child??’ a common complaint for many SW shows.

[hauberk]

5 hours ago, mormont said:

The floor is basically techno-magic and it would have made as much sense for the writers to write it as working for multiple species as it would to write it the way they did. The food issue has never been a problem in any other SW setting. These aren't reasons, they're rationalisations.

We agree a lot but I’m going to stand my ground on this one.  It makes far more sense, in this world of space wizards and laser swords to segregate species by species than merge.  A bar in a space port or cosmopolitan city-planet capitol where inter species trade is a thing (our areas where food has never been an issue) but a prison is just different. 

[VigoTheCarpathian]

16 hours ago, hauberk said:

It’s not too much to ask, but, in particular for the prison, logistically it makes no sense - not only due to food supply lines but also calibrating the floors to multiple species. 

I took the scene where they were asking “what is your home planet?”, before they shunted them into different shuttles as the imperial method of picking which prison would capable of holding them (and I didn’t think about it, but feeding as well).  

[Lord Varys]

It is ridiculous to assume the floor in the prison necessitated the lack of aliens there. For one, there was no narrative reason to work with that floor thing - there could have been a different mechanism to keep the inmates in line.

Also, of course, there could have been one setting for all species in this particular prison ward, especially other very human-like aliens like Twi'leks, Nautolans, Togrutas, etc.

The reason why there are so few aliens in Andor is because the creator wanted it that way - and this just sucks and doesn't fit with Star Wars as established by George Lucas in OT, PT and TCW.

10 hours ago, hauberk said:

Have we seen much in the way of aliens on Coruscant during the imperial era?  I’ll confess that much of my Lore is now considered legend but my recollection was that the Empire was particularly species-ist.

Coruscant was always a multi-species planet, so, no it being Imperial would have changed nothing there.

The notion that the Empire in the new canon has anything against aliens is pretty much nonsensical now by Mas Amedda being Palpatine's second-in-command as Grand Vizier and various non-human species playing crucial roles in the Imperial Senate as depicted by TBB.

10 hours ago, hauberk said:

Agreed about the rebels as a whole but it didn’t make sense for the heist crew. 

It would depend on how you go by it there. Natives of the planet could have been aliens rather than clichéd human indigenous people ... and then a member of that species could have played a crucial role in the heist. Also, of course, they could have a pilot who was non-human. Or it could have been a more inter-species setting in general where the presence of non-humans would not raise suspicion.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, hauberk said:

We agree a lot but I’m going to stand my ground on this one.  It makes far more sense, in this world of space wizards and laser swords to segregate species by species than merge.  A bar in a space port or cosmopolitan city-planet capitol where inter species trade is a thing (our areas where food has never been an issue) but a prison is just different. 

In that it should be far easier to feed multiple species in a prison than it is in a bar, I'd agree!

I'm with Varys here, and it's not even a disagreement as far as I can see: it's crystal clear that the creators decided they didn't want (for whatever reason) to have multiple species in the show, at least not much, and that the order of events is that the story elements that make that choice make narrative sense flow from, rather than dictating, that decision.

I say 'creators' because it's not at all clear whether it was the writers or someone else who took that decision. Might have been a creative decision, a budget decision, a bit of both, something else entirely. You can argue about the prison, but the heist planet population being basic humans is the really obvious bit IMO.

Anyway, it's not a major flaw or anything, the point is it's clearly a choice.

[Raja]

22 hours ago, Maia said:

I love Andor, but why is it too much to want to have aliens in a "galaxy far, far, away"?

I think that's a very fair point on the show.

[Heartofice]

I’m sure there were budget and logistic constraints that just meant it was easier to make most people human rather than alien. Given how all the other shows looked like absolute dog shit and were rushed gibberish I think it’s a pretty acceptable trade off.

[hauberk]

45 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It is ridiculous to assume the floor in the prison necessitated the lack of aliens there. For one, there was no narrative reason to work with that floor thing - there could have been a different mechanism to keep the inmates in line.

Also, of course, there could have been one setting for all species in this particular prison ward, especially other very human-like aliens like Twi'leks, Nautolans, Togrutas, etc.

The reason why there are so few aliens in Andor is because the creator wanted it that way - and this just sucks and doesn't fit with Star Wars as established by George Lucas in OT, PT and TCW.

Coruscant was always a multi-species planet, so, no it being Imperial would have changed nothing there.

The notion that the Empire in the new canon has anything against aliens is pretty much nonsensical now by Mas Amedda being Palpatine's second-in-command as Grand Vizier and various non-human species playing crucial roles in the Imperial Senate as depicted by TBB.

It would depend on how you go by it there. Natives of the planet could have been aliens rather than clichéd human indigenous people ... and then a member of that species could have played a crucial role in the heist. Also, of course, they could have a pilot who was non-human. Or it could have been a more inter-species setting in general where the presence of non-humans would not raise suspicion.

The scenario presented in the series works pretty well to meet the creators wishes.
 

I could be remembering correctly but my recollection was that the floor was simply electrified.  As I understand, the margin between tazer and heart stopping shock is milliamps. That floor as punitive measure vs electrocution becomes much more complex. 

Even the ergonomics of mass production make sense to narrow the field. Certainly, the species you mentioned are likely similar enough from an ergonomic standpoint but including Dugs or Mon Calamari to say nothing of other sized aliens doesn’t make sense. 
 

TBB is at the very beginning of the transition to Empire - literally beginning with Order 66. Hardly the same Empire in place ~10 years later when Andor takes place. 
 

It’s absolutely canonical that we’ve never seen an outwardly non-humanoid (barring Thrawn) uniformed member of the imperial forces. Alien native species means that the heist team can’t both disguise as natives and as imperial troops.  Alien pilot is certainly possible but necessitates using the Wookie prisoner or some similar feint to get them to the ship. 
 

 

[Ran]

People's imagination of Star Wars is so strongly shaped by the cantina scene, but that's basically the single largest collection of alien species in a single Star Wars scene until... what, the Republic senate in the prequels? Even Jabba's palace doesn't have that many aliens in one place.

It's not until Return of the Jedi when we get the Mon Calamari (who basically stick to their own ships and interface with the Rebellion through Admiral Ackbar and his chief staff) and Nien Nunb (and other Sullustans) and the Bothans (who may have been humans from some place called Botha, I guess, in original conception), so the sole representatives of an alien  among the Rebels prior to that was ... Chewbacca? Sounds like the Rebellion was pretty human-centric for a lot of it!

Yes, obviously, Andor made a choice, but I don't think all shows need to cover all the bases of the Star Wars universe.

And I agree that the Empire being pretty speciest should be canonical by now. 

Edited April 23 by Ran

[Kalbear]

Jabba's palace has more different aliens seen throughout the whole sequence, and obviously endor has more aliens as a whole even if they're the same species.

And sure, the infiltrator rebels have to be human- why do the inhabitants of the planet? The only reason is maybe the imp captain who falls in love with a local but interspecies fucking is canonical in star wars too.

Mostly, I think one of those things (the homeworld, the heist, the prison) would have been fine with humans only, but it stood out when everything was.

It especially stands out compared to any of the other Disney shows - cartoon or otherwise. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

interspecies fucking is canonical in star wars too.

So you're sending this erotica to me or..?

[hauberk]

2 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Jabba's palace has more different aliens seen throughout the whole sequence, and obviously endor has more aliens as a whole even if they're the same species.

And sure, the infiltrator rebels have to be human- why do the inhabitants of the planet? The only reason is maybe the imp captain who falls in love with a local but interspecies fucking is canonical in star wars too.

Mostly, I think one of those things (the homeworld, the heist, the prison) would have been fine with humans only, but it stood out when everything was.

It especially stands out compared to any of the other Disney shows - cartoon or otherwise. 

The infiltration team was hiding in plain site as inhabitants during the flybys and, I would assume, in the event of and ground patrols, but since we didn’t get that stated, that could be me rationalizing rather than a reason. 

[Kalbear]

28 minutes ago, hauberk said:

The infiltration team was hiding in plain site as inhabitants during the flybys and, I would assume, in the event of and ground patrols, but since we didn’t get that stated, that could be me rationalizing rather than a reason. 

There's no specific reason they have to be hiding in plain sight though. Like that made sense for this specific plan but it isn't like the planet was blockaded or there were day to day patrols or anything. 

Ultimately it's a choice. It's a choice that the director also largely made with Rogue One too. It's not that big of a deal, but it would have been nicer and more star warsy if they had more aliens. 

[felice]

2 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Ultimately it's a choice. It's a choice that the director also largely made with Rogue One too. It's not that big of a deal, but it would have been nicer and more star warsy if they had more aliens. 

It would have been more prequelly if they had more aliens. They were going for an OT style.

[Heartofice]

All three trilogies have centred around humans, with aliens only ever being part of the background and only ever in certain locations. I’ve always had the sense that humans are the main species of the story, but there are places with more aliens than others.

Otherwise I just don’t care about it, and find this critique very odd, like the most nitpickiest of nitpicks. 

[Maia]

18 hours ago, mormont said:

I'm with Varys here, and it's not even a disagreement as far as I can see: it's crystal clear that the creators decided they didn't want (for whatever reason) to have multiple species in the show, at least not much, and that the order of events is that the story elements that make that choice make narrative sense flow from, rather than dictating, that decision.

Actually, I remember reading an interview with Gilroy (don't have a link, sorry), where he explicitely stated that they wanted to tackle important issues and portray deep emotions and that it would have been incompatible with having more aliens, because then the audience wouldn't have been able to take the show seriously(?!!!). So yes, it was a choice and the one which displays paucity of imagination, IMHO. I loved Andor, but I found this aspect of it to be very disappointing and much more than a nitpick, seeing how aliens usually stand for different cultures, the Other, etc. In fact, aliens existing in  numbers in the setting, but being marginalized by the narrative to this degree kinda goes against what Gilroy is reaching for thematically... IMHO, of course.

Didn't even have to be the prison, but for instance  inhabitants of the heist planet should have been aliens - they honestly felt pretty fake as humans to me. There is also no reason why a humanoid-shaped alien couldn't have easily disguised themselves as a stormtrooper in armor,  or why there couldn't have been more aliens among the Ferrix people. Or why that officer needed to be motivated by romance. Etc, etc.

I also think that trying to align the new Star Wars installments with the OT in such aspects that were clearly of their time or necessitated by technical limitations, is a mistake. I liked Rogue One, but Jyn literally being a "scientist's beautiful daughter", who only got involved in the mission because of her father,  with every other team member and  Resistance operative being male, grated on me. Ditto everybody being human with a couple of token aliens in non-speaking (IIRC) roles.

[Heartofice]

24 minutes ago, Maia said:

Actually, I remember reading an interview with Gilroy (don't have a link, sorry), where he explicitely stated that they wanted to tackle important issues and portray deep emotions and that it would have been incompatible with having more aliens, because then the audience wouldn't have been able to take the show seriously(?!!!). So yes, it was a choice and the one which displays paucity of imagination, IMHO. I loved Andor, but I found this aspect of it to be very disappointing and much more than a nitpick, seeing how aliens usually stand for different cultures, the Other, etc. In fact, aliens existing in  numbers in the setting, but being marginalized by the narrative to this degree kinda goes against what Gilroy is reaching for thematically... IMHO, of course.

Didn't even have to be the prison, but for instance  inhabitants of the heist planet should have been aliens - they honestly felt pretty fake as humans to me. There is also no reason why a humanoid-shaped alien couldn't have easily disguised themselves as a stormtrooper in armor,  or why there couldn't have been more aliens among the Ferrix people. Or why that officer needed to be motivated by romance. Etc, etc.

I also think that trying to align the new Star Wars installments with the OT in such aspects that were clearly of their time or necessitated by technical limitations, is a mistake. I liked Rogue One, but Jyn literally being a "scientist's beautiful daughter", who only got involved in the mission because of her father,  with every other team member and  Resistance operative being male, grated on me. Ditto everybody being human with a couple of token aliens in non-speaking (IIRC) roles.

If this stuff is important to you then ok fine, but the SW disney-verse is already over burdened with trying to make banal politic points instead of being.. actually good. Pointing to pretty much the only good thing Disney has done with the franchise in years and saying it's not making the right progressive noises is just utterly wearisome.

Edited April 24 by Heartofice

[DMC]

14 hours ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

Jabba's palace has more different aliens seen throughout the whole sequence

Yeah, I think Jabba's palace scene is fairly analogous with the cantina scene in terms of showing alien species.  Dunno why that should be minimized.

Generally I agree with HOI that this is a thing but not a big thing.  Do I think Andor should include more alien species for the reasons mentioned here?  Of course.  Do I think this is a relatively minimal complaint - and one that demonstrates there's not much to complain about with Andor?  Yep. 

As for Rogue One having more women..I guess?  In terms of the main crew there's like, what, three men and Jyn?  I guess four if you count the pilot, or five if you consider K-2 "male."  I suppose that could've been more evenly divided among the key characters, but again, minor complaint.