Did Mirri Poison Drogo?

[Craving Peaches]

I used to think not and it was just him not following advice that lead to an infection, however I was thinking about it again and now I'm not so sure. Khal Drogo isn't stupid, he never lost a battle and that wouldn't be possible if he didn't at least have some wits about him, and if he was going to do stupid things like ignore medical advice which leads to infection I'm sure he would have died by now, surely that can't have been the first time he was wounded. Also, Mirri has a clear motive to poison Drogo.

[kissdbyfire]

No. Is it possible she was counting on Drogo being an ignorant and stubborn idiot who would not only not have any respect for her as a healer and too much of a “macho man” attitude to follow her instructions? I’d say yes. 

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I used to think not and it was just him not following advice that lead to an infection, however I was thinking about it again and now I'm not so sure. Khal Drogo isn't stupid, he never lost a battle and that wouldn't be possible if he didn't at least have some wits about him, and if he was going to do stupid things like ignore medical advice which leads to infection I'm sure he would have died by now, surely that can't have been the first time he was wounded. Also, Mirri has a clear motive to poison Drogo.

The problem is that the Dothraki, like the Ironborn, are written to be stupider than the actual societies upon which they are based.

So, I think, we are to believe that Drogo really was too foolish to use her remedy.  One can assume, in reality, that the Mongols/Comanches etc. had some knowledge of treating wounds.  And, most people would not rise to positions of leadership in such societies without being fairly bright - not necessarily in an an intellectual sense, but certainly with the sense to keep themselves safe, and the ability to read situations and people.

Prior to the invention of penicillin, plenty of soldiers did of course die from infected wounds, but there was still a wide body of knowledge as to what treatments were most efficacious.

[EggBlue]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

I used to think not and it was just him not following advice that lead to an infection, however I was thinking about it again and now I'm not so sure. Khal Drogo isn't stupid, he never lost a battle and that wouldn't be possible if he didn't at least have some wits about him, and if he was going to do stupid things like ignore medical advice which leads to infection I'm sure he would have died by now, surely that can't have been the first time he was wounded. Also, Mirri has a clear motive to poison Drogo.

No, I don't think so. I'm not surprised that Drogo did not care for Mirri's medical advice, but I was a bit surprised that there was no one but Mirri to attend to a prestigious khal who is gifted palaces and such left and right. If Mirri had poisoned Khal Drogo, I only have praise for her! Unlike Rhaego's case, it was not a debatable situation. Drogo had it coming!

[sifth]

Drago is an idiot, for not using his trusted healers. I'm not quite certain if she poisoned him or not, but I'm thinking probably not. Drogo seemed to do the opposite of the things she required him to do and died from his wounds as a result.

[Curled Finger]

I thought it added a level of tragedy and horror to Dany and Drogo's love story that Mirri prolonged Drogo's life.  She did exactly what she wanted to do and exacted her revenge and wasn't it so bitter?  It would have been more mercy and kindness to allow Drogo to die of his wounds as he was likely supposed to.  In this blood magic Dany learns about revenge and the hardness in people's hearts that is not softened by her goodness.  Gads the whole thing is heartbreaking particularly when Dany is the one forced to kill him.  No, not an actual physical poison, but an emotional poison of the deepest, darkest, ugliest sort.  As a reader the worst part was understanding both sides of it.  

[astarkchoice]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

No, I don't think so. I'm not surprised that Drogo did not care for Mirri's medical advice, but I was a bit surprised that there was no one but Mirri to attend to a prestigious khal who is gifted palaces and such left and right. If Mirri had poisoned Khal Drogo, I only have praise for her! Unlike Rhaego's case, it was not a debatable situation. Drogo had it coming!

This

 

Now as for   the dothtaki ,theyd  surely have heard of a famous healer in the village they were sacking so its odd hed not follow her advice unless being macho.

[Mourning Star]

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

No, I don't think so. I'm not surprised that Drogo did not care for Mirri's medical advice, but I was a bit surprised that there was no one but Mirri to attend to a prestigious khal who is gifted palaces and such left and right.

Drogo was foolish not to get attention right away, but the idea that he wanted his men seen to first is kind of noble.

Dany could almost feel his agony. The wounds were worse than Ser Jorah had led her to believe. "Where are the healers?" she demanded. The khalasar had two sorts: barren women and eunuch slaves. The herbwomen dealt in potions and spells, the eunuchs in knife, needle, and fire. "Why do they not attend the khal?"
"The khal sent the hairless men away, Khaleesi," old Cohollo assured her. Dany saw the bloodrider had taken a wound himself; a deep gash in his left shoulder.
"Many riders are hurt," Khal Drogo said stubbornly. "Let them be healed first. This arrow is no more than the bite of a fly, this little cut only a new scar to boast of to my son."

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Mourning Star said:

Drogo was foolish not to get attention right away, but the idea that he wanted his men seen to first is kind of noble.

You say “noble”, I say “I’m gonna show I’m the toughest alpha mutherfucker there is”.

[Mourning Star]

40 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

You say “noble”, I say “I’m gonna show I’m the toughest alpha mutherfucker there is”.

Haha, I see no reason it can't be both!

[Lost Melnibonean]

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I used to think not and it was just him not following advice that lead to an infection, however I was thinking about it again and now I'm not so sure. Khal Drogo isn't stupid, he never lost a battle and that wouldn't be possible if he didn't at least have some wits about him, and if he was going to do stupid things like ignore medical advice which leads to infection I'm sure he would have died by now, surely that can't have been the first time he was wounded. Also, Mirri has a clear motive to poison Drogo.

Drogo (and perhaps his unborn son) was an offering to the Great Sheppard...

 

 

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

You say “noble”, I say “I’m gonna show I’m the toughest alpha mutherfucker there is”.

And eventually turned out to be a "wimp" who couldn't stand the poultice and required soothing filthy mud put on it instead and dull it with milk of the poppy.

To the OP: Drogo's wound became septic and he was on his way to die of septic shock. He had a fever and his wound was corrupted and close to the heart.

Kurz dies the exact same way in aCoK, during Arya's journey in the Riverlands before getting caught by the Mountain. Kurz had a shoulder wound because of an arrow. Then Tarber put mud on the shoulder. And the corruption became visible as the shoulder blackened and angry red flares went out. Same thing was happening to Lommy, but it took much longer, because nobody put mud on his calf and the calf is much farther away from the heart.

Quote

She wished the poacher hadn't died. He'd known more about the woods than all the rest of them together, but he'd taken an arrow through the shoulder pulling in the ladder at the towerhouse. Tarber had packed it with mud and moss from the lake, and for a day or two Kurz swore the wound was nothing, even though the flesh of his throat was turning dark while angry red welts crept up his jaw and down his chest. Then one morning he couldn't find the strength to get up, and by the next he was dead. (aCoK, Arya V)

No MMD, magic or "poison" required. Just filth in a wound so that bacteria can cause sepsis. Kurz is a parallel to Drogo, but without Dany and MMD being involved. Lommy is a parallel to Ned Stark's leg,who was constantly given milk of the poppy by Pycelle and whose cast had turned grey and rotten during his time in the black cells. Ned was feverish, his leg throbbing and hot to the touch too. And he needed to be held up or carried like Lommy.

Edited April 11 by sweetsunray

[kissdbyfire]

28 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And eventually turned out to be a "wimp" who couldn't stand the poultice and required soothing filthy mud put on it instead and dull it with milk of the poppy.

Exactly. Just like all the modern day “alpha male” types, such as the ones on Twitter screaming that they’re “oh so alpha!” when the truth is they’re all a bunch of wimpy cry babies!

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Exactly. Just like all the modern day “alpha male” types, such as the ones on Twitter screaming that they’re “oh so alpha!” when the truth is they’re all a bunch of wimpy cry babies!

The irony of course is that someone who really was an 'alpha male' in the classical sense would never have to go around shouting about it.

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

The irony of course is that someone who really was an 'alpha male' in the classical sense would never have to go around shouting about it.

Yeah, that’s precisely the point.
This type of behaviour is 100% hilarious and pathetic.

[Craving Peaches]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, that’s precisely the point.
This type of behaviour is 100% hilarious and pathetic.

It's a stock sign of actually feeling insecure about oneself.

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's a stock sign of actually feeling insecure about oneself.

No doubt. And dealing w/ it in the worst possible way. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

14 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I used to think not and it was just him not following advice that lead to an infection, however I was thinking about it again and now I'm not so sure. Khal Drogo isn't stupid, he never lost a battle and that wouldn't be possible if he didn't at least have some wits about him, and if he was going to do stupid things like ignore medical advice which leads to infection I'm sure he would have died by now, surely that can't have been the first time he was wounded. Also, Mirri has a clear motive to poison Drogo.

Mirri murdered Drogo.  She made sure that wound would get infected.  The Dothraki are warriors.  They are not strangers to wounds. Very few of the warriors would survive to adulthood if they knew nothing about how to treat wounds.  Mirri put something in the dressing to make sure the wound would not heal. 

[sweetsunray]

7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's a stock sign of actually feeling insecure about oneself.

And not wanting his men and khalasar to be witness to his cries of pain and fear for needle and thread.

[Walda]

Drogo chose the healing methods of his own people, in spite of Mirri's explicit warnings against them.

Thing is, Mirri had been taught "the magics of grass and corn and horse" by a Dothraki healer. She also knew how to heal in the style of the Jogos Nhai, a riding, nomadic, warrior culture. She also knew Western medicine and blood magic from Asshai.

She chose to heal Drogo by the methods of her own people, the peaceful sheep that pray for the protection of the Great Shepherd. The people despised by the Dothraki as natural slaves, sub-human flocks for the Dothraki to predate upon.

Not only do the Dothraki particularily despise her culture and her ethos, they also regard her as a succubus and a necromancer, because of her knowledge. 

Mirri's ethos is that all human beings belong to the same race, and that she is charged with healing them, wherever she finds them.

If we look at her practice, she uses boiled wine, as the (pacifist, celibate) maesters do.

She uses the needle and fire of the eunuch healers (another type of slave-healing that both Drogo and Cohollo had refused until Dany tired of waiting.)

And then, there was the sacred smoke, song/spell, and the poultice of fire-pod and sting-me-not, with lambskin binding. These, clearly, are the healing of her own sheep-people.

One part of her practice that interests me is the silver needle, silk thread, and red potion. These together seem to allude to the blood magic of Asshai. Silver objects are associated with magic and moonlight (and money, and healing, Andals, Dany, weapons, Children of the Forest, Starks and Arryns, Mormonts and Mallisters, so many houses, oddly, often including Lannisters. But at this point in the narrative, where it is associated with silk and the colour red, I am thinking blood magic from Asshai. Like Qyburn with the Mountain and his Dornish poison (red silk is a Dornish as well as an Asshai association), one of the very first things we are told of Mirri is that she practices *magic*. The black kind. And as soon as that has been made perfectly clear, GRRM focuses the narrative on the non-magical medical details, reducing the spells to a sing-song chant or wail. 

We know she used magic, possibly using Drogo as a sacrifice on the Great Shepherd's alter, where she would normally sacrifice a lamb. But I don't think she did anything to harm him or cause him to die. That would be against her religion, her sacred vocation. Of course she knows. "men who knew how to heal also knew how to kill" is not restricted by gender. Knowing isn't doing, though.

Mirri explicitly advised against using the milk of the poppy (beloved of Westerosi healers), alcohol, and soothing poutices. But she knew Dothraki herb-women would use soothing mud and leaf poultices in that situation, and that the Dothraki would drink fermented mares milk (as well as poppy wine and fire beer). 

As someone who had travelled beyond her own villiage, Mirri might also have known they were headed for Meereen, and they would be travelling down the Skahazdhan, through swamps and mires full of bloodflies and their maggots. (And possibly human waste from settlements along the river, including the decaying corpses of her own villiage).

She knew how it would go, as she knew how it would go when Dany begged her to save Drogo's life with blood magic. She knew that Dany was not prepared to admit to herself that Rheago was the price she paid for Drogo's life. She knew that, if she saved his life, Drogo would never ride again.

Mirri knew, but she made sure she did everything she could to heal Drogo. She did this in spite of physical abuse and threats to her life from Haggo and Qotho (interesting to me - when Drogo falls from his horse, Cohollo gets off his horse and goes to his khal. Not these two. Cohollo doesn't approve of Mirri, but he never attempts to harm her. Even when he attempts to kill Dany while she is giving birth to Drogo's son, he makes no attempt or threat to harm Mirri.

Mirri volunteers to heal Drogo, by appealing to Dany. Mirri admits to Dany that she knows "a spell" that could save Drogo, though "Some would say that death is cleaner". Apart from these times, she does as she is told, comes when she is summoned. Mirri does as much to heal Drogo and Dany as she can. As much as her status as Dany's slave allows her to. She explicitly warns Dany of the downside to her treatments, and to the failure to follow them. Knowing that the Khal would not obey her instructions or keep to her remedy. Knowing he would go to the Dothraki herb women, who wouldn't take the flyblown corpses in the river mud into account. Knowing that Dany would be left with no midwife but her, and that she would summon Rheago's life to pay for Drogo's. Knowing is not doing. 

At the very end of Mirri's life, Dany hears the Maegi scream. But I don't. I hear Mirri singing the birthing spell she had learnt from the Moonsinger, to bring the dragons to life from their stone eggs. That is a gift she gave Dany voluntarily, or perhaps a curse, for demanding her own life in exchange for that of a dragon. After all, dragons represent slavery, subjugation, fire and blood for most people in the world. The Dothraki understanding is that heroes killed the dragons, so there might be some personal satisfaction in knowing the Stallion Who Mounts the World is also paying with his life to unleash the blurse of dragons on the world again.