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"Woke" - what does it really mean?


Ser Reptitious
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You say woke is to be totally drunk everyday,

you say woke isfilthy, craven and mean

you say woke is self-mutilation, violence and hatred

that sounds like a whole lotta fun.

you say woke is politically incovenient

you say woke is with your mind against the system

you say woke is existentialism denial of values and structure

You say woke is cool cloths everythingg's cool

you say woke is a female Doctor Who

you say woke is to drunkenly yell feminist slogans

you say woke's only real in  the Tardis

 

Spoiler

Admittedly not Alice in Wonderland, but at least I didn't invoke a pedo. So not woke mormont.

 

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13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’m not sure that is really an answer to my question. 

It directly is.  The right is brazenly and inaccurately referring to a small amount of leftist dickheads - predominately on social media - who engage in "illiberal" activism as all-encompassing "wokism."  This is a demonstrably inaccurate application of the term.  Again, this was admitted by DeSantis' people during the Hillsborough judge's court case.

I suppose I didn't answer what to call this small amount of dickhead leftists instead of "woke," sure, but there are plenty of names.  You should check the dictionary!  The English language has a lot of terms for it!  Me, I just prefer assholes.  Or, clearly, dickheads.

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39 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No I don’t.

My guess is you're the person who groans when mandatory diversity training meetings are scheduled? Not because you specifically are requested, but departmentwide. 

35 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

 Do you really think that all conservatives are Christian fundamentalists? 

In the US right now? No, I don't. But their hands are on the wheel that's controlling the majority of shit your political ideology is doing. And by not actively recognizing that, you're just a passenger along for the ride if you're not trying to change it. 

Quote

And I would say right back at ya in terms of your side wanting everyone to live under their thumb, agree to their definitions and priorities.

What to you is comparable?

42 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Just yesterday I saw a Jeep with bumper stickers for Trump-DeSantis 2024, and "proud to be everything Iiberals hate" and a decal of Calvin pissing on Biden's name. The "pissing liberals off" or"making liberals cry" trope is pretty common even in Massachusetts. Forgive my potential bias, but I don't see anything like that from "the left." Certainly there have been bumper stickers mocking Trump or other Republican leaders, but I don't see anything like "proud to offend conservatives."

There isn't one. But for a bit of levity:
 

 

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7 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

There is a HUGE difference between organic evolution over time reflective of increasing/broadening scope and a deliberate attempt to undermine the legitimacy of segments of society and their ability to be/feel included. The word Jew has a meaning. Had a meaning, changing somewhat over time, for centuries. 
 

Then suddenly the Nazis used that word differently, and that was something that happened quickly, not by those it describes and with a specific malign purpose.

better examples would be Social justice(which by definition could include things like ending Jim Crow), and political correctness(which can include things like nazis rebranding as being alt-right or dissident right), safe spaces(which can include SA group meetings. Oh I’m reminded distinctly of Ben Shapiro describing his movies as a safe space for conservatives.

11 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

you say woke is a female Doctor Who

You say woke when cartoon candy doesn’t wear sexy shoes.

You say woke when Kanye when is canceled for being a bigot towards the Jews.

Woke, woke you say all day, everyday. 

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28 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

So is it a characteristic of the illiberal and dogmatic left to teach that slavery occurred, or for The Little Mermaid to be black, or for people to put their pronouns in their email signature? Because that's where "woke" is being applied these days 

We don’t have that in the UK but we do have ‘decolonising the curriculum’ which I guess is similar. If I replaced slavery with that as I’m more familiar with it, I’d say actually they would all be good examples where the left is misrepresenting what the right are complaining about.

I’d say Woke could accurately be applied to the second 2, being seen as empty virtue signalling moves by a lot of people. 
 

The first one is more akin to pulling down statues, again a pretty woke activity, so not totally inaccurate either. 
 

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

It directly is.  The right is brazenly and inaccurately referring to a small amount of leftist dickheads - predominately on social media - who engage in "illiberal" activism as all-encompassing "wokism."  This is a demonstrably inaccurate application of the term.  Again, this was admitted by DeSantis' people during the Hillsborough judge's court case.

I suppose I didn't answer what to call this small amount of dickhead leftists instead of "woke," sure, but there are plenty of names.  You should check the dictionary!  The English language has a lot of terms for it!  Me, I just prefer assholes.  Or, clearly, dickheads.

I’m not so sure it is just a few leftist idiots though. Being obsessed with language and preventing people using language is pretty illiberal and woke.. and look what is going on in this very thread! Is there a mirror I can get you guys.

Edited by Heartofice
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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

We don’t have that in the UK but we do have ‘decolonising the curriculum’ which I guess is similar. If I replaced slavery with that as I’m more familiar with it, I’d say actually they would all be good examples where the left is misrepresenting what the right are complaining about.

I’d say Woke could accurately be applied to the second 2, being seen as empty virtue signalling moves by a lot of people. 
 

The first one is more akin to pulling down statues, again a pretty whole activity, so not totally inaccurate either. 
 

Casting a black actress in The Little Mermaid is akin to pulling down statues? What the suffering fuck?

I thought, in your nonracist utopia, people would simply not think about race. So why is it a problem that a girl with slightly darker skin than the Hollywood standard gets the role?

Edited by DanteGabriel
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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

I’m not so sure it is just a few leftist idiots though. Being obsessed with language and preventing people using language is pretty illiberal and woke.. and look what is going on in this very thread! Is there a mirror I can get you guys.

......Yeah, telling you you're wrong about a definition is not "illiberal."  Indeed, you really need to look up the term illiberal.

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9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

’d say Woke could accurately be applied to the second 2, being seen as empty virtue signalling moves by a lot of people. 

Are you talking about when a queer person is shown briefly for a moment in a children’s movie?

9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The first one is more akin to pulling down statues,

So a moral neutral action by itself really. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Casting a black actress in The Little Mermaid is akin to pulling down statues? What the suffering fuck?

I’ll say it’s a bit weird when non-Americans  express outrage over something mainly being done to statutes of people who pushed for a white ethnosate and made specifically to scare black people.

I’m more sympathetic to the standard American in the Deep South because they’ve been primed all their lives to associate the statues that at most risk of being taken down as a good thing, a corner stone of their-cultural identity.

Its like those far right people abroad who brandish the confederate flag—I think we know why*

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4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

You are telling people not to use a word. Try and pretend that’s not illiberal all you like but it’s pretty clear what is going on.

“Iliberal is when you tell me I’m wrong, and the more wrong you tell me I am, the more iliberal eventually you become Stalin!”

This unfortunately isn’t an unfair characterization.

.

Edited by Varysblackfyre321
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9 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Casting a black actress in The Little Mermaid is akin to pulling down statues? What the suffering fuck?

I thought, in your nonracist utopia, people would simply not think about race. So why is it a problem that a girl with slightly darker skin than the Hollywood standard gets the role?

The point here is what people are complaining about is an empty virtue signal by Hollywood to lazily replace old characters with new diverse actors as a form of tokenism and virtue signalling to hide the fact they are still shitty and making  bad movies. 
 

This gets misrepresented on the left ‘see look at all the racists!!’. Those same people on the right  are usually fine with diversity when it feels organic and  isn’t done cynically.

Pronouns in the bio, same thing. The problem the right have with it is that it’s seen as nothing more than an empty virtue signal to others that you have the right beliefs. It’s also one of those things which gets mandated through social pressure. 

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22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

snipped.

What to you is comparable?

 

The trend toward anti free speech, controlling and policing speech and criminalizing 'hate' speech.  The also alarming trend toward shouting down/violently protesting XX conservative person to deny them a platform to speak.  Maybe that's the same thing, but physically preventing a person from speaking at a public or private venue feels different to me.  Both are about controlling what is acceptable discourse.   

 

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16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

You are telling people not to use a word. Try and pretend that’s not illiberal all you like but it’s pretty clear what is going on.

LOL!  So, we've gotten to the retreat portion of the discussion.  Always hilarious! 

I suppose I'll go slowly so all can understand:  Starts with a bunch of people misusing a term for political purposes.  Then a reaction from people accurately saying that's not what the word means.  As Seinfeld would say, yadda, yadda, yadda -- then it ends with the right whining that people are being "illiberal" because they have no substantive response.  Funny thing, there IS a term for this type of sheepish behavior within internet discourse.  It's called snowflakes.

Edited by DMC
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8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

The trend toward anti free speech, controlling and policing speech and criminalizing 'hate' speech.  The also alarming trend toward shouting down/violently protesting XX conservative person to deny them a platform to speak.  Maybe that's the same thing, but physically preventing a person from speaking at a public or private venue feels different to me.  Both are about controlling what is acceptable discourse.   

Please cite where this is going on.  Legally, not just because you lost an argument of the internet.

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10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The point here is what people are complaining about is an empty virtue signal by Hollywood to lazily replace old characters with new diverse actors as a form of tokenism and virtue signalling to hide the fact they are still shitty and making  bad movies.

Hey I never get an answer for this—how does one discern the difference between Halley Berry being picked for the role of a fish person because she was the best major actor applying for the job vs being black?

Far as I know there isn’t one.

Oh also Light year just had two random women kissing for a moment. Still got called woke

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

LOL!  So, we've gotten to the retreat portion of the discussion.  Always hilarious! 

I suppose I'll go slowly so all can understand:  Starts with a bunch of people misusing a term for political purposes.  Then a reaction from people accurately saying that's not what the word means.  As Seinfeld would say, yadda, yadda, yadda -- then it ends with the right whining that people are being "illiberal" because they have no substantive response.  Funny thing, there IS a term for this type of sheepish behavior within internet discourse.  It's called snowflakes.

Lol back at you. 
 

As I said many times 

YOU DONT GET TO OWN WORDS.

Woke means whatever people want it to mean. There is no accurate or in accurate here. If people understand something by a word then that is it’s meaning. 
 

That you seem to want people to stop using a word ( someone earlier said the use of the word was causing people distress lol) just highlights that ‘wokeness’ isn’t just some fringe movement, unless of course everyone here are extremists ( they might be)

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Just now, Heartofice said:

As I said many times 

YOU DONT GET TO OWN WORDS.

Woke means whatever people want it to mean. There is no accurate or in accurate here. If people understand something by a word then that is it’s meaning. 

As I said many times

NEITHER DO YOU

You don't get to pervert "woke" for your political purposes and neither does the right.  Do you have a "right" do to so?  Absolutely!  But by the same token I have every right to point out how idiotic, harmful, and pathetic this attempt is.  THAT'S free speech, son.  Learn it.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

As I said many times

NEITHER DO YOU

You don't get to pervert "woke" for your political purposes and neither does the right.  Do you have a "right" do to so?  Absolutely!  But by the same token I have every right to point out how idiotic, harmful, and pathetic this attempt is.  THAT'S free speech, son.  Learn it.

So you are saying the right is not allowed to use the word woke?

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

So you are saying the right is not allowed to use the word woke?

.....No.  Try reading my post that you JUST fucking quoted.  Do you have a "right" do to so?  Absolutely!

You have a right to brazenly and inaccurately define political terminology.  And I have a right to point out how brazenly and pathetically inaccurate your "definition" is.  Get it yet?

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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What “complexities” arises from that?

I’m reminded of the virulent backlash to Elliot Page’s transitioning and some of the “complexities” people tried to inject even though this was an example of a fully realized adult transitioning.

What if by being openly happy with transitioning, like for instance taking pictures of himself relaxing at the beach, he caused young kids to want to transition. Ergo for the purity of the youth he shouldn’t show himself being happy for transitioning.

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