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Salvaging the Stark's public image


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House Stark has a bad reputation in the South.  They are known for treason and rebellion.  Eddard confessed to treason and the people reacted with hostility.  The public may not have liked their mercurial King Joffrey but they also condemn treason.  We the readers are privileged to know the reason why Eddard tried to take control of the kingdom away from Cersei and Joffrey.  But the commoners and the nobility are not.  They only know what they heard and what they witnessed.   It is also very much in doubt whether the Starks will be able to prove that Joffrey was not a Baratheon and thus was not the legal heir.  Catelyn Stark is known as the Lady who drew the lion into battle when she ordered the arrest of Tyrion.  She also murdered an innocent boy at the Red Wedding.  Sansa is forever tainted as an accomplice to King Joffrey's murder.   The Starks will never be able to prove that Jaime Lannister had tried to kill Bran.  

There are only two people alive who can salvage *some* of the Stark reputation and honor.  Jaime and Cersei Lannister.  Cersei has not done so for understandable if not selfish reasons.  Jaime has had many opportunities to help salvage the Starks' public image and reputation but he has not done it.  Will Jaime confess the needed information to redeem the Starks?

*Some of the reputation can be salvaged.  Perhaps Eddard was right to displace Cersei and Joffrey.  Jaime tried to kill Bran Stark and that was an insult to guest rights.  Let me repeat, Jaime broke guest rights.  Sansa knew nothing about the assassination of Joffrey until it happened.  But the fact that Robb rebelled and Jon broke his vows at the Wall, those are not redeemable.

Edited by Aline de Gavrillac
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40 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

House Stark has a bad reputation in the South.  They are known for treason and rebellion.  Eddard confessed to treason and the people reacted with hostility.  The public may not have liked their mercurial King Joffrey but they also condemn treason.  We the readers are privileged to know the reason why Eddard tried to take control of the kingdom away from Cersei and Joffrey.  But the commoners and the nobility are not.  They only know what they heard and what they witnessed.   It is also very much in doubt whether the Starks will be able to prove that Joffrey was not a Baratheon and thus was not the legal heir.  Catelyn Stark is known as the Lady who drew the lion into battle when she ordered the arrest of Tyrion.  She also murdered an innocent boy at the Red Wedding.  Sansa is forever tainted as an accomplice to King Joffrey's murder.   The Starks will never be able to prove that Jaime Lannister had tried to kill Bran.  

There are only two people alive who can salvage *some* of the Stark reputation and honor.  Jaime and Cersei Lannister.  Cersei has not done so for understandable if not selfish reasons.  Jaime has had many opportunities to help salvage the Starks' public image and reputation but he has not done it.  Will Jaime confess the needed information to redeem the Starks?

*Some of the reputation can be salvaged.  Perhaps Eddard was right to displace Cersei and Joffrey.  Jaime tried to kill Bran Stark and that was an insult to guest rights.  Let me repeat, Jaime broke guest rights.  Sansa knew nothing about the assassination of Joffrey until it happened.  But the fact that Robb rebelled and Jon broke his vows at the Wall, those are not redeemable.

I'm not sure the Starks' reputation needs salvaging.  The Riverlands is still seething with rebellion over the murder of their king, the Young Wolf.  Daven Lannister, warden of the West, described the river lords' attitude as"wolfish".  So they're certainly liked, and missed, there.

As for the rest of the South, they seem to have forgotten the Starks altogether.  They rarely get mentioned.  Jaime might disclose the incest, but that will probably mainly simply hurt Cersei and Joffrey's reputation.

The Starks will build back their reputation through accomplishment and good deeds.  They will almost certainly lead the fight against the Others and be heavily involved in the rebuilding and restoration that follows.

The Starks' reputation doesn't need salvaging.  And to the extent that it needs building up, they can do that themselves, but any help will be accepted and appreciated.

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The only ones who need to work on their public image and a good reputation laundering are you and your mates, who are constantly spewing hateful and idiotic statements that are wholly disconnected from the text and the story being told. 

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14 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon Snow and Ned have the worst reputation. An admission from Jaime could theoretically help Ned’s. Jon will always be tainted an oath breaker.  The small folk of the river lands will have no idea what brought the Mountain to wreck their homes and villages. 

They know it was the treacherous and monstrous Lannisters

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47 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The small folk of the river lands will have no idea what brought the Mountain to wreck their homes and villages. 

Just when I think the stupid arguments can’t get any stupider… 

Everyone and their aunts know Gregor Clegane is Tywin’s mad dog, everyone knows Tywin unleashed him on the Riverlands. We even have a rare glimpse of the actual smallfolk asking for help in AGoT. 

AGoT, Eddard XI

The lords of the Trident keep the king's peace," Ser Raymun Darry said. "The Lannisters have broken it. We ask leave to answer them, steel for steel. We ask justice for the smallfolk of Sherrer and Wendish Town and the Mummer's Ford."

"Edmure agrees, we must pay Gregor Clegane back his bloody coin," Ser Marq declared, "but old Lord Hoster commanded us to come here and beg the king's leave before we strike."

Thank the gods for old Lord Hoster, then. Tywin Lannister was as much fox as lion. If indeed he'd sent Ser Gregor to burn and pillage—and Ned did not doubt that he had—he'd taken care to see that he rode under cover of night, without banners, in the guise of a common brigand. Should Riverrun strike back, Cersei and her father would insist that it had been the Tullys who broke the king's peace, not the Lannisters. The gods only knew what Robert would believe.

Grand Maester Pycelle was on his feet again. "My lord Hand, if these good folk believe that Ser Gregor has forsaken his holy vows for plunder and rape, let them go to his liege lord and make their complaint. These crimes are no concern of the throne. Let them seek Lord Tywin's justice."

"It is all the king's justice," Ned told him. "North, south, east, or west, all we do we do in Robert's name."

 

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1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon Snow and Ned have the worst reputation. An admission from Jaime could theoretically help Ned’s. Jon will always be tainted an oath breaker.  The small folk of the river lands will have no idea what brought the Mountain to wreck their homes and villages. 

Jon and Ned and Robb have excellent reputations across the North which is why Stannis is so keen to be associated with them.

By contrast, the reputation of the Lannisters is (literally) in the toilet.  Cersei is famous for her naked slut walk;  Tywin, for being murdered on the privy;  Tyrion as a parricide;  Jaime as the man who murdered his king.

The Freys are so hated that every man with a weapon slays them on sight.

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I'm pretty sure people put together 2 and 2. Who stood against the Starks exactly? Oh yea, the people, who massacred them on a wedding, publicly executed on of em on the Stairs of Baelor's Sept, publicly humiliated on of em (a child) in front of the biggest noble public, etc...

Eddard Stark's reputation will likely be hit more severely by the fact that he harbored Rhaegar's son under Robert's rule, than his confession to the public before his execution. Well, it will, if anyone will care at that point. And the people who care and will care are all very much aware of how things went by during those times the Starks lost so much of their reputation.

Edited by Daeron the Daring
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Let's give the boy/or girl a chance to make a strong argument. Not everyone who criticizes the Starks are trolls. Misguided, perhaps, but not necessarily trolls.

In my opinion, none of the Starks have done anything wrong, per say. But we are the readers and we have as close to an omnipresent/omniscient view as possible. And it is my opinion that the Starks are to be viewed as the protagonist viewpoint in this story. It is literally how the story is set up from the very beginning.

But regarding the OP, just making some blanket statements regarding a family you may or may not like, I think is disingenuous. Perhaps purposely so. But I don't know that. And neither does anyone else.

So disregard those who are calling you a troll and state your case. Your OP was very brief and basic. So expand if you will - with textual evidence if possible and not just "my feelings."

Edited by Back in Black-Snow
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32 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

Let's give the boy/or girl a chance to make a strong argument. Not everyone who criticizes the Starks are trolls. Misguided, perhaps, but not necessarily trolls.

Criticism is fine, as long as it isn’t just blind and stupid hate that has no backing in the text. Sadly, the OP is well-known by most posters for being one of a small and very loud group that only ever posts stupid shit that has nothing to do w/ anything other than their blind hatred of anything Stark. That’s why most replies to the OP are just posters who are sick and tired of this dumb af pattern of creating ridiculous threads to spew more tripe nonsense w/ zero textual support. 

32 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

But regarding the OP, just making some blanket statements regarding a family you may or may not like, I think is disingenuous. Perhaps purposely so. But I don't know that. And neither does anyone else.

Speak for yourself. I and most who have replied know exactly who the thread’s author is and what their intentions are. 

32 minutes ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

So disregard those who are calling you a troll and state your case. Your OP was very brief and basic. So expand if you will - with textual evidence if possible and not just "my feelings."

:lol:

Don’t hold your breath waiting for textual support, you aren’t going to get any. 

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10 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

House Stark has a bad reputation in the South.  They are known for treason and rebellion.  Eddard confessed to treason and the people reacted with hostility.  The public may not have liked their mercurial King Joffrey but they also condemn treason.  We the readers are privileged to know the reason why Eddard tried to take control of the kingdom away from Cersei and Joffrey.  But the commoners and the nobility are not.  They only know what they heard and what they witnessed.   It is also very much in doubt whether the Starks will be able to prove that Joffrey was not a Baratheon and thus was not the legal heir.  Catelyn Stark is known as the Lady who drew the lion into battle when she ordered the arrest of Tyrion.  She also murdered an innocent boy at the Red Wedding.  Sansa is forever tainted as an accomplice to King Joffrey's murder.   The Starks will never be able to prove that Jaime Lannister had tried to kill Bran.  

There are only two people alive who can salvage *some* of the Stark reputation and honor.  Jaime and Cersei Lannister.  Cersei has not done so for understandable if not selfish reasons.  Jaime has had many opportunities to help salvage the Starks' public image and reputation but he has not done it.  Will Jaime confess the needed information to redeem the Starks?

*Some of the reputation can be salvaged.  Perhaps Eddard was right to displace Cersei and Joffrey.  Jaime tried to kill Bran Stark and that was an insult to guest rights.  Let me repeat, Jaime broke guest rights.  Sansa knew nothing about the assassination of Joffrey until it happened.  But the fact that Robb rebelled and Jon broke his vows at the Wall, those are not redeemable.

Jaime has no motivation to do this.  The personal cost to him will be high.  Ned and Robb are very dead.  Cat is a zombie and Jon will very soon become one too.  Their crimes are or will be paid.  Public opinion will not save them.  A writ of attainder has been signed which took every material possession from the Starks.  Only victory in war will change the status quo. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Criticism is fine, as long as it isn’t just blind and stupid hate that has no backing in the text. Sadly, the OP is well-known by most posters for being one of a small and very loud group that only ever posts stupid shit that has nothing to do w/ anything other than their blind hatred of anything Stark. That’s why most replies to the OP are just posters who are sick and tired of this dumb af pattern of creating ridiculous threads to spew more tripe nonsense w/ zero textual support. 

I understand what you mean. I just don't recall this particular poster and thought, "We'll, maybe...?" There are many who comment, and I already know to ignore them. I just wasn't familiar with this one.

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1 hour ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Jaime has no motivation to do this.  The personal cost to him will be high.  Ned and Robb are very dead.  Cat is a zombie and Jon will very soon become one too.  Their crimes are or will be paid.  Public opinion will not save them.  A writ of attainder has been signed which took every material possession from the Starks.  Only victory in war will change the status quo. 

 

The fact that Robb was massacred in a wedding by the Freys who broke guest rights actually MASSIVELY improves his and the Starks' reputation. Smallfolk despise those who committed this act (primarily Freys) and in their eyes it elevates Robb Stark high - a 'war hero' who couldn't be killed in the battlefield so needed to be betrayed on a wedding, forsaking the laws of gods and men.

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So if Robb et al are all evil for rebelling against Joffrey, I assume @Aline de Gavrillac, @Moiraine Sedai and @H Wadsworth Longfellow that you view Joffrey as the rightful king? Because if Daenerys is the rightful Queen, then Robb did nothing wrong by rebelling against Joffrey, who was never the rightful king so it wasn't treason in the first place. Could someone please explain this apparent conflict of opinion to me?

Edited by Craving Peaches
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15 hours ago, Back in Black-Snow said:

I understand what you mean. I just don't recall this particular poster and thought, "We'll, maybe...?" There are many who comment, and I already know to ignore them. I just wasn't familiar with this one.

You must have missed his thread when he compared Jon Snow and Aerys Targaryen and how they are basically the same person. It was locked after only a few hours, but this OP is indeed well known for "Dany is the greatest person to ever live" and "All of the Starks are the devil" type of posts.

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2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

So if Robb et al are all evil for rebelling against Joffrey, I assume @Aline de Gavrillac, @Moiraine Sedai and @H Wadsworth Longfellow that you view Joffrey as the rightful king? Because if Daenerys is the rightful Queen, then Robb did nothing wrong by rebelling against Joffrey, who was never the rightful king so it wasn't treason in the first place. Could someone please explain this apparent conflict of opinion to me?

You just blew my mind, lol

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