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UK Politics: Bully for you


Derfel Cadarn

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5 hours ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

I have voted.

 

What I will say despite there being no-one else in the queue  so just me it took twice as long to be given my voting slip as previously.  this is due to them carefully checking that my name and address on my driving licance matched what I had said and their forms and that I looked like my photo.

 

I imagian that in busy districts this is going to cause long delays.  and yes I had my ID in my hand ready and did not have to dig it out of my purse.

 

They also told me when I asked that they are keeping a tally chart of the number of people they turn away due to lack of ID as this is the first time we have needed ID to vote in this district.  this will not be happening at the next election. (which might be a more true indication of voting problems as this is just local council elections so probably a low turnout anyway)

It’s amazing to me to see how the years and years of the Republican rallying cry of “voter cheating” has been picked up in various countries and ID requirements have been imposed on us. Decades and decades, actually. Mind you, here in Canada the government once upon a time actually sent out thousands of part-time workers to go door-to-door to confirm names and addresses for the Voters List, copies of which were then posted on telephone poles on the relevant streets. That was done, iirc, so people could “inspect” the lists and make corrections or raise objections. I think that ended at least 30 or 40 years ago when the federal government switched to mailing out voter information cards to you instead, based on the address on your tax return. Once upon a time you just showed up with your voter card and voted. Now you have to bring the voter card and your ID in order to vote.

The change happened here in 2007 when the then ruling Conservative Party claimed there was massive voter fraud going on in Canada. Wild claims of tens of thousands of fraudulent votes being cast were made (never proven, of course, and absolutely ridiculous). Since we have a written constitution and it gives the right to vote to every citizen, the law was challenged, thrown out as unconstitutional at the lower level but reinstated by appeals courts who said rights were not being infringed when reasonable rules were instituted.

Showing ID was considered reasonable, but because it might disproportionally affect some people and prevent them from voting, the government has a positive obligation to ensure no groups were adversely affected. Adversely affected groups that were identified in post-election surveys included indigenous people (a group people suspected really had been targeted by the Conservatives because they rarely vote Conservative, although funnily enough many indigenous people refuse to vote in elections for reasons of sovereignty), residents of old-age homes (identity can be vouched for but you can only vouch for one person, nursing home staff can now vouch for all residents) transgendered people who might not have appropriate ID, and young people attending university or working away from home.

I think most Canadians were initially  ruffled by the ID requirements but since the vast majority have no problem providing ID we’ve just shrugged our shoulders about it, which the Conservatives were banking on.

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24 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

It’s amazing to me to see how the years and years of the Republican rallying cry of “voter cheating” has been picked up in various countries and ID requirements have been imposed on us. Decades and decades, actually. Mind you, here in Canada the government once upon a time actually sent out thousands of part-time workers to go door-to-door to confirm names and addresses for the Voters List, copies of which were then posted on telephone poles on the relevant streets. That was done, iirc, so people could “inspect” the lists and make corrections or raise objections. I think that ended at least 30 or 40 years ago when the federal government switched to mailing out voter information cards to you instead, based on the address on your tax return. Once upon a time you just showed up with your voter card and voted. Now you have to bring the voter card and your ID in order to vote.

The change happened here in 2007 when the then ruling Conservative Party claimed there was massive voter fraud going on in Canada. Wild claims of tens of thousands of fraudulent votes being cast were made (never proven, of course, and absolutely ridiculous). Since we have a written constitution and it gives the right to vote to every citizen, the law was challenged, thrown out as unconstitutional at the lower level but reinstated by appeals courts who said rights were not being infringed when reasonable rules were instituted.

Showing ID was considered reasonable, but because it might disproportionally affect some people and prevent them from voting, the government has a positive obligation to ensure no groups were adversely affected. Adversely affected groups that were identified in post-election surveys included indigenous people (a group people suspected really had been targeted by the Conservatives because they rarely vote Conservative, although funnily enough many indigenous people refuse to vote in elections for reasons of sovereignty), residents of old-age homes (identity can be vouched for but you can only vouch for one person, nursing home staff can now vouch for all residents) transgendered people who might not have appropriate ID, and young people attending university or working away from home.

I think most Canadians were initially  ruffled by the ID requirements but since the vast majority have no problem providing ID we’ve just shrugged our shoulders about it, which the Conservatives were banking on.

The Conservatives under Harper, and successive leaders, cannot quite grasp the fact that at best just over one third of the voters actually like them. Hence the push against illegal voting. 

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I just looked at my calendar on my iPhone to check an appointment and I noticed a mark under May 6. I didn’t remember having something booked on Saturday, and damned if Google hadn’t marked the day as The Coronation of King Charles III.

Coverage of the event starts at 4:00 am here. I woke up at some awful time to watch his marriage to Diana, no PVR/VCR at that time, so while I’ll record it I may actually get up to watch some of it as well. Not really for nostalgia, but because I like London. Westminster Abbey is a great church.

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My local voting station said they had almost nobody without ID. But it's quite a middle class area so of course everyone has a driving licence or alternative. 

Had to vote tactically, lib dems are rather floppy, but better than the alternative. 

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I didn't have any problems voting but, you know, since all it took for me was taking my drivers licence out of my wallet which is always in my pocket anyway I'm probably not the kind of person who's going to encounter any difficulties. I can't say I noticed it taking any longer than normal either. I didn't think to ask whether they'd had any issues.

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4 hours ago, ljkeane said:

I didn't have any problems voting but, you know, since all it took for me was taking my drivers licence out of my wallet which is always in my pocket anyway I'm probably not the kind of person who's going to encounter any difficulties. I can't say I noticed it taking any longer than normal either. I didn't think to ask whether they'd had any issues.

As you say, I don't think you're part of the demographic the Tories are trying to disenfranchise.

As for the post above, I could attempt to get into an honest and serious discussion regarding the correlation between countries that issue compulsory ID cards for every adult, paid for by the state, and those that require voter ID to be presented at the polling station.

Or we could discuss the actual electoral fraud that has taken place in the runup to this election, whereby non-Tory voting households were deliberately spammed with leaflets, issued by Conservative Central Office, telling them not to bother bringing ID.

 

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It's all about the execution when it comes to voter ID. If the govt / department in charge of elections are not automatically issuing compliant ID to every registered voter, free of charge, several weeks in advance of the election, then the voter ID requirement is disenfranchising. It shouldn't be a partisan or ideological debate, so long as everyone in the conversation supports the basic elements of democracy. When the outcome of a voter ID law is to make it more difficult for people with a legitimate right to vote to exercise their right, then that is a democratically bad outcome. 

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4 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Dumb foreigner question: how come the vast majority of England (geographically speaking) is having an election, but not all of it?

 

because they are local elections and they are staggerd.  terms last 4 years.   (also not every seat will be up for election in the same council at the same time).

 

this time its mostly the Rural seats and the north.  London I think mostly voted last year and didn't get to vote this time.

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Our local elections aren't staggered. But then we only have 1/13 the population.

Another question: is England the most populous unitary democracy? I guess technically the UK is a unitary state but Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have devolved govts, so it's much neater to ask about England by itself I guess.

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7 hours ago, Spockydog said:

As for the post above, I could attempt to get into an honest and serious discussion regarding the correlation between countries that issue compulsory ID cards for every adult, paid for by the state, and those that require voter ID to be presented at the polling station.

Except of course the UK already has a free ID card service that anyone can get if they wanted it. 
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

Amongst the very many other ways of getting ID. 

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On 5/4/2023 at 6:18 AM, BigFatCoward said:

I get the impression the majority of their customers were cut from the same cloth. 

They presumably went under because there aren't enough with those views...

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Except of course the UK already has a free ID card service that anyone can get if they wanted it. 
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate

We received our official government leaflet informing us about this new ID card in yesterday's post. Far too late to apply for it, even if they had not brought the deadline to do so forward.

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34 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

Meanwhile Police Scotland is telling its officers to shave

Police Scotland officers ordered to shave off beards https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65482560

It’s weird. For years there was always a clean shaven policy except on health or religious grounds. They relaxed it several years ago, the only proviso being that officers grew the beard while on leave, ie didnt turn up on shift with stubble.

The restriction for front-facing staff is new and I’d be curious if its enforceable as its not in t&c. Also since it’s apparently due to masking, which is nO longer really a thing, seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.

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